More Just Stop Oil hell? When will it stop?

[newnamethanks]

Apparent JSO protestor throws confetti at George Osborne's wedding. The danger! The terror! Front page news for the D Mail. Let's stamp this dangerous practice out before it becomes a habit.

They could do what jso does? Most people say they're worried about climate change.

If 30% of the population was slow marching in the streets the govt would have to take notice.

And what do they do when they take notice? They are more concerned with curbing the right to protest, that is what they take from people's demonstrations and marching. They don't give a shit.

I'm not convinced by that and would be interested to hear where it has worked in the past, bearing in mind climate change is something that requires a compleat overhaul of multiple government policies and values, rather than the concession or development of a single policy.

This Guardian article for example is quite the mental gymnastics. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/disruptive-protest-helps-not-hinders-activists-cause-experts-say

7 in 10 academics think disruptive protest might be important, but 78% of the public think its a pile of shit. Yet the article is written in favour of it!

This is why the public is letting the Torys erode our protest rights, and are not prioritising climate change enough to make it a major election voting point.

The independence of India
Voting for women
Removal of racial segregation
The entire environmental movement

And then there's the 8 hour working day and finally that business with throwing tea into Boston Harbour - although I acknowledge that that one ended in fighting.

I've thought of more - Luther nailing stuff to a church door.
Breaking down the Berlin wall

Same. Plus how it is achieving anything? Media mileage I guess. I lost sympathy when ambulances and fire engines were prevented from getting to their destination. I’m all for non-violent protest, I’m not for letting the vulnerable suffer.

I didn't vote for this government. I have never voted Tory.
How would JSO and XR disrupting my commute or a sporting event I was at have any point?
Are all the people who are agreeing with JSO and XR also supportive of disruptive marches and direct action by the fuel protest blockades or the EDL or is only OK if it's a cause you support?

Ack, I'm coming round to them.

I was pretty anti-PSO during the 'stopping traffic and throwing paint' phases.

Now they are throwing a bit of confetti about at sporting events, I'm starting to soften.

I'm not denying that there was disruptive protest in these events that needs to be factored in, but they all had complex strings of various groups lobbying for/against and underlying political agendas. For example the right to vote for some women, came with the right to vote for ALL men. Ultimately there was public support for these policies and I'd be interested to see how that relates to support for the protest groups themselves.

78% of people don't support disruptive protest techniques at the time of the above guardian article, I expect this doesn't reflect the percentage of people who DO support climate change mitigation policies. Just because something you asked for happens, it doesn't mean it's because of your actions.

LivingDeadGirlUK

https://radicalteatowel.co.uk/posters/radical-britain-map-poster

As well as the examples above, this is a fab map of the UK that shows various uprisings and examples of direct, disruptive action and protest they have led to significant change.

LivingDeadGirlUK

There has been 30+ years of campaigning, peaceful protest, advisory groups, COPs etc. JSO and other forms of direct action are just a part of the picture, you are right. Their purpose, is to be a PITA. I’m sure the suffragettes pissed off a lot of people and were unpopular. But they knew they were right. They knew they couldn’t just sit back. I’m in huge admiration of people that put being liked to one side and still do what they know is the right thing.

Thanks I will take a look, I did think of an example when I was having lunch, the Kinder Scout mass trespass.

In response to your second post I agree its important to have principles, I'm just afraid we will have to agree to disagree on how effective protest is in bringing around change. My position is still that the change comes from the swing in public opinion, and while in some scenarios this correlates with disruptive protest, in the case of climate change it's not, because there is so little public support for the action taken by groups like XR and JSO.

I have a Chartist tea towel from that very company and I’ve participated in six separate marches for various protests this year. I managed to do all of that without disrupting the emergency services in going about their work.

Stop oil said it wasn't authorised by them.

She was a stop oil protestor but she threw orange Confetti at a wedding. She didn't stab anyone

LivingDeadGirlUK

I think it’s hard to know true public opinion because, largely, the public are not fully informed. If your only source of news is your SM bubble and/or the Daily Mail, you’d be forgiven for assuming there isn’t a global emergency. So I think we might be able to measure what people think of JSO but we can’t measure the public view on climate policy because most don’t realise the truly depressing and frightening situation we are in.

I think anyone that is fully informed of both the full extent of the emergency, the impact it will have on them and their offspring, and the Government’s truly appalling approach, most would join in to be honest. I say that as a calm, rational person, this isn’t hyperbole. I don’t think anyone whose house was on fire around them would sit and continue to douse it with fire.

GwinCoch

Good for you standing up for what you believe in. Sadly, we are way past the time of peaceful protest. We’ve had over 30 years of it (much more but I’m not old enough to have seen that for myself). 30 plus years of campaigning, calmly and peacefully. The Government’s own advisors say they are not doing enough. We are rapidly approaching dangerous tipping points from which there is no going back. Catastrophic outcomes. The Government have been told this time and time again, we have had countless marches, petitions, peaceful direct action, but they continue to put policies in place that put us at risk, in pursuit of wealth. To be honest I’m flabbergasted that we aren’t all revolting! It’s madness to just accept it.

GwinCoch

Also, I’m pretty sure that the story about an ambulance not getting through a protest was de-bunked, but I’d have to search for that. Also, one set of emergency services being delayed is a homeopathic dose of what’s to come. I know climate scientists and they are scared. Rationally scared.

I don’t think it was but happy to be proved wrong. Also I’m not in any way a climate denier, I’m shit scared of what we’re facing and glad I don’t have kids to pass this poisoned chalice on to. I just don’t agree with some of the approaches that protestors take. I’ve still got blisters from my last little trot on the streets of Cardiff, there is a lot wrong with the world.

LivingDeadGirlUK

Sorry, not hassling you, I just remembered that I forgot to add that the way these protests are reported in the media makes a massive difference to how they are seen too. The multi-million £ owned media, likely with pensions and shares tied up in oil and gas. If JSO and XR (the latter have now shifted to less disruptive action) were reported as ‘extremely concerned citizens’ rather than ‘Eco zealots’ I imagine opinions would shift significantly. I’ll shut up now!! 😊

GwinCoch

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/just-stop-oil-dartford-ambulance-not-delayed-m20-accident/

Got it!! I’m not feeling well so hauled up in bed bored! Nothing better to do 😂

Wrong ambulance and ambulance service to
the one I was thinking of! The one I was aware of was an East of England ambulance and it was in central London this year and not in 2022. JSO say they have a policy of letting blue lights through but that’s disingenuous as there are many reasons why vehicles still need emergency access without turning on their lights and sirens.

So I think I have found the one you are talking about.

Daily Mail article April this year, Oxford Street:
‘Just Stop Oil said its activists moved out of the way as soon as they realised the ambulance was behind them.’

Of course in true DM style, the headline was much more sensationalist. There was also a Telegraph article but there is a pay wall.

I also found a YT video of someone hassling protesters in June, telling them about an ambulance. You can hear the protesters say they can’t hear a siren, then send someone to check quite quickly.

I am pretty sure they uphold their policy of moving out of the way for emergency services. Austerity and lack of investment have led to far worse delays to be honest. This is a drop in the ocean.

https://juststopoil.org/

I just came across their website when I was looking up whether or not the protests do delay ambulances etc (there has been an FOI request to find out for sure BTW) and I ended up watching the video of one of their members talking about why she signed up. I could relate to it so much. It’s very moving.

To be honest I’m flabbergasted that we aren’t all revolting! It’s madness to just accept it.
But people aren’t willing to change really. You tell people to stop driving and flying, that huge amounts of what they see as everyday necessities and luxuries need to be forgone, that factories making unnecessary plastics need to go, that they should stop eating meat and eating all processed food and instead go back to times where you collected a loaf with a tea towel over it, drank water from your tap, got milk in a glass bottle etc etc etc … gif the amount of furore just because they said maybe don’t mow your lawn for a month- people just wouldn’t do any of it! And they’re just your average joes- remember prince Harry saying it was fine for him to fly because he’d offset the emissions? This is where we are, everyone thinks if they do something it’s enough!!