Advice please - coercive control?

[rosesarentred3]

I'll start by saying if anyone recognises me from other threads I've created under a different name, please do not put those links on this post as all the info added together would make me easily identifiable to friends and family.

After being in my marriage for 10 years, I can see now that I believe my partner is controlling. I see a therapist who feel strongly that this is happening.

There are too many examples to list but I'll list a few:

Starting random arguments about my family out of nowhere, it literally could be anything. Then DP says to me 'see, look, we're arguing because of them, look at what they're doing to us! We shouldn't have contact with them'. This is about various family members and friends. DP has fallen out with many members of my family so it's awkward to see them.

If I leave a wrapper on the side, DP will be annoyed at me, tell me off, go on and on at me about it. But then does the same herself. If I said something she'd go mad.
The other week I said one night that I was going for a shower abr her response was 'does this kitchen look clean to you? Can you honestly say this is clean? Clean the kitchen before you have a shower'.

Saying what clothes to wear and not wear. I put on some summer pants and DP says 'you really look big in them. Honestly, if you're conscious about your weight I wouldn't wear those, they make you look massive'. I'm a size 10. Not that that matters.

My work is extremely confidential. DP will ask me for confidential information about my work saying 'if you don't tell me then you don't trust me' and will badger me about it and eventually not speak to me for long periods of time because I haven't divulged information.

Tells me regularly I wouldn't survive without her. What would I do without her? How did I manage before? etc.

My confidence is so low. I rarely see my friends. I've lost loads of friends since is being together.
DP told me when we first got together that some of my friends who I saw all the time had been speaking about me behind my back saying awful things and made sure we broke ties with them so I don't see any of them anymore.

Will get really mad at my family and say it's just because she's trying to protect me. Even though there's nothing to protect me from.

We have a child. When I was pregnant she insisted that she take the shared parental leave because I'd had enough time to bond with the baby while I was pregnant so it was now her turn. So I returned to work after having the baby. I cried to dp and said I really wanted to be with the baby and couldn't bear the thought of leaving her. But this just turned into an arguments where DP would cry saying she wanted time off with the baby.
A part of me felt like it was the right thing to do because DP continuously told me I wouldn't manage on my own, that I'd probably forget to do what I needed to do with the baby etc. and I really started to worry that would be true and agreed for her to take the leave instead.

Anyway - what I wonder is, what do I do now? I feel like I can't be in this relationship. I don't feel loved. I haven't ever felt loved in this relationship. Do I just leave? In which case this means selling the house and sorting shared custody etc.

Do I try to spend some time building my confidence first? Making friends? Going out more? Meeting people?
I'm always at home. I work at home. Then when I'm not working, I'm always with DP to the point where I now feel extreme anxiety whenever I go somewhere without DP.

Today I was planning a day with DC. DP then started a big argument with me, slagging of my family again etc.
however, I came out.
Is it completely pathetic that I feel chuffed with myself for coming out? I wasn't as anxious as I usually am. Years ago, I wouldn't have batted an eye at coming out on my own.

It all feels such a mess.

she is going to push you till you break, that’s her intention.
Why do you pay the majority? How are the bills etc split.
Get a lock for the bedroom door.
Anyone in her family able to speak and reason with her?
xxx

When you say “We have had no interest from anyone in terms of buying the house” what do you mean? Have you had feedback from the estate agent? No viewings at all? Are the pics nice, or are there obvious problems with the listing? If you’ve had no viewings then surely it’s overpriced?

I ask as I don’t think things are going to improve until you’re not living together so I think you need to get the house sold asap, even if it means taking a hit on the price.

If you’re paying more than your share of bills keep a record if everything and tell get you’ll be asking your solicitor to claim her “share” from her equity when the house is sold. Or of course she can move out…

You have got to be completely single minded about this, don’t let her see an iota of doubt. The house will sell, the divorce will go through and she is not going to get a penny above her legal entitlement. Just keep telling her this and don’t rise to her provocations. And if it gets too much take your DD away for a couple of nights and leave her to it.

Well the house price needs to be reduced. It's only worth what people are prepared to pay.

After the savings on estate agent fees does that mean you can afford to buy her out as it's not worth near the current asking price.

As for your bedroom just fit a lock on it.

Unfortunately the housing market is very flat/negative in some areas at the moment. The OPs STBX (I hope it is soon!) may well stamp her feet and demand a higher price than is achievable and blame the op if it's not forthcoming but if ever anyone needed to learn that 'I want doesnt get' it's her.

@rosesarentred3
She is saying she will delay the sale of the house unless I agree to give her 60% of the equity.

I agree with pp that the housing market is currently very uncertain, so that could account for the lack of interest, however is there any way she could actively 'delay' any sale?

She is trying to control you still, but you're doing brilliantly well. I'm sorry you're going through so much crap, but you will get through this. 💐

Are you ok @rosesarentred3?

How are you getting on @rosesarentred3 ?

Thank you for your comments.
The house still hasn't bad interest. I do think it could be the time of year etc. I'm going to see about lowering the price.

It's really difficult to live here with her. One minute she is being quite normal and seems nice and the next minute she is stood next to me telling me about all of the childhood traumas I've told her about in the past. Just saying the experiences to me as if to get a reaction.

She was very nice to me the other nice when I needed help with something.
But a few nights before she asked me for sex. I said no and she asked again. I told her I didn't want to. So she went on to tell me I'm not normal and I'm weird etc.

Then last night she kept talking about 'in the event of my death' saying that when I die, my daughter won't be seeing my family. I asked her why she keeps taking about when I die. And she said 'you never know. It could happen. Thousands of kids lose a parent'.

I'm not sure what to do. The solicitor said not to leave the house but I'm really struggling being here. She has a way of making me feel completely broken, sad and depressed.
I feel more and more low as time goes on.

@rosesarentred3

I'm a solicitor. I don't understand the rationale for the advice you've received about not leaving the house. What does your solicitor think the risks are in relation to this?

I don't see how it weakens your legal position at all. It is common for people to live separately following a relationship breakdown.

OP, have you thought any more about going to the police? You have a very long list of examples of her coercive control, threats against your pets, directly threatening your life now.
I really think you are the classic boiled frog not recognising how dangerous this situation actually is.
You need ongoing sprcialist support, beyond a solicitor.
I suggest you call women's aid, describe the above and all the background, and ask what they think you should do. And follow their advice.

OP,

No idea what the legal risks are of leaving the house- can you ask your solicitor to clarify why they told you this.

Whatever the potential risk is, you need to balance that risk against the actual harm you are suffering as a result. It is not in your interests or your child's for you to feel 'broken, sad and depressed.'

I haven't read everyone else's replies yet but the behaviour of your DP strongly suggests a personality disorder, probably borderline personality disorder but I'm not a psychiatrist.
You need to know that your DP will never change and your child will be affected eventually because in DPs mind everyone is fair game, everyone else in the world is wrong, everyone else is responsible for her misery, everyone else is there to be pushed and fallen out with, even children. Then the pattern is to make up and the cycle goes on repeat.... forever.
She probably has sociopathic tendencies and cannot have empathy, she may say she does understand others feelings when it's beneficial to her but she doesn't.
It's often due to trauma in early years, and that's awful to think about but you must put the wellbeing of your child first and yourself and get out.
People with BPD can often say they will end it all, or even attempt to, and that's a ploy to make it your fault and to make you stay.
Be strong and if there's any threat get help. Good luck, from someone who was married to an abuser with BPD who's adult children are still mentally affected by his disgusting and unforgivable behaviour. 💐

@budlea64 completely agree and I (psychotherapist) mentioned this before. Highly likely she has a personality disorder and definite narcissistic and sociopathic traits. Before anyone starts that's NOT the same as saying everyone who has a personality disorder has these tendencies and would behave like this because that's not true. I'd bet my career this women has multiple traits.

@rosesarentred3 OP, I've been direct before but I will be even more direct now..

"Then last night she kept talking about 'in the event of my death' saying that when I die, my daughter won't be seeing my family. I asked her why she keeps taking about when I die. And she said 'you never know. It could happen. Thousands of kids lose a parent"

Leave the house now.
Report this to the police.

I do not want to be reading about you or watching a documentary about you in a few years time about 'missed opportunities'. This is a veiled threat to kill you and make it look like an accident potentially. Whether she is serious or not or just saying this to make you scared. Either way I wouldn't want to take my chances. Your daughter needs to be removed from this environment asap.

Before anyone attacks me I preface this suggestion by saying it is only because I think much more time in that house with her is not safe or in any way right and you are understandably not coping. Nobody could, she is intolerable.

Have you seen what one of those we buy any house type firms will give you for the house or similar type companies. At least to compare with what you would get it for on an average week in the open market type forecast. You don’t have to take it

Just and idea and @rosesarentred3 feel free to eye roll at it

If the price is reduced can you afford to buy her out?

No eye rolling here, it's an option.

However it really is the last option, if the conclusion from multiple agencies and solicitors is somehow that OP must stay in the house until it's sold - or lose everything.

And I think there are still many avenues that OP needs to explore before she gets to that point -

Why is her solicitor advising her not to leave the house? Is she fully appraised of the domestic abuse OP and her DC are enduring while they continue to live there?
What do other DA specialist agencies suggest OP does, given the ongoing abuse?
What do the police recommend she does, given the ongoing abuse?
Has the solicitor explored and exhausted all legal methods to protect OP's position in the house, while allowing OP to leave, or to force her wife to leave?
What about a second solicitor? What is a second opinion saying?
What does the estate agent say could be done to get a quick sale?

I fear OP has yet to ask question 1 and either her solicitor is completely ignorant of the reality of the situation at home because OP has minimised it (no blame here OP) or she's unfortunately picked a useless solicitor.

But staying in the house with such a dangerous woman because a solicitor has told you that would be best, in the face of all evidence to the opposite, without questioning or challenging or asking any other agency for help, feels like the actions of someone really in denial.

OP what would help you, what would you need to explore how you can leave?

In answer to some of the questions that people have asked:

I cannot afford to buy her out.
There is still no interest in the house, even though it is a really lovely house. I think it is just a tough time of year.
She is not willing to reduce the price at all.

She is still talking about money and wanting me to send her money telling me that she doesn't have any money at all. I know this isn't true because she earns a good wage and she doesn't have to pay much out towards the house because I pay a huge amount.

She keeps talking about if I die and what will happen in the event of my death. Telling me that my family will not be able to see my daughter if they do not have a good relationship with my ex. She also keeps talking about the life insurance and that if I die it will make things easier for her financially because she will receive a large payout.
She says it as a 'joke' but she is saying it frequently.

I am making an appointment with my solicitor for this week. I do have lots of questions, but if anyone has any ideas of questions I can ask to make the most of the hour, please let me know. It is very expensive to book an appointment. So I want to make sure I get the most out of it

Is there anyway you can stop verbal communication with her, insist that any comments or questions are written down, her style of communication is unsettling, threatening and used to intimidate and pull you into an argument, do not respond to any of her taunts, threats, passing remarks, veiled threats/jokes. Only communicate about essential information about your child.
It is possible to get a non-molestation order in place whilst in the same house, I’d be asking the solicitor about this.

You can speak to right of women for free about an occupation and non-molestation that these death threats are abuse.

Speak to the solicitor about forcing the house sale through court. It's expensive and takes time but I think it may be the only way to get her out. Even if you had a buyer she could refuse to sign and end up in court anyway.

Did you ever make an appointment with the local police to discuss her coercive control and whether there is enough to arrest & charge her? This could then be coordinated with an occupation order so she couldn't return to the house even if she did not eventually get prosecuted.

@rosesarentred3

I think you need to explain to your solicitor that your wife is threatening your life and your pets and you are very afraid. Previously she has advised you to remain in the house so you've done so despite how afraid you are.
You have not contacted the police because you are afraid.
What options exist legally for you to force her to leave the house?
Can she explain to you the process of gaining an occupation order?

Why did she advise you to remain in the house? You are finding it extremely difficult to remain in the house when your wife is abusive and keeps threatening your life. Would she still advise you to remain in the house in these circumstances, if your wife refuses to leave? If you need to leave at short notice, is there anything that needs to be done in advance to protect your interest in the asset? Why doesn't she advise you leave now, given the abuse you are suffering remaining in the house?

You need to be very clear with her: you are a victim of severe coercive control, you are very scared of your wife, and that your wife keeps threatening your life.

Although frankly you need to be going to the police, which I hope your solicitor will advise you to do.

Are you still seeing your therapist?

You need to change the beneficiary of your life insurance.

Have you updated your Will?

You need to stop all this back and forth with her.

I agree about seeking clarification around the advice to stay in the house with her. This seems bizarre to me. Divorce is very common and I haven't heard of this advice being given to anyone else.

If she digs her heels in then you might need to wait for a court order to reduce the price and sell the house.

If I was you I would move out, rent a small flat and reduce your payment of the mortgage to 50%. If she's in the house she can pay the other 50%. Adjust the division of the sale price to reflect the period in which you subsided her.

Perhaps when it genuinely causes her money problems she will be motivated to reduce the price and sell.

Stop engaging with her so much, thats exactly what she wants.

Report the repeated mentions of your death to the police, get it all written down.

I think that I would move out but still pay the mortgage. You do not want the house repossessed. I would stop/reduce contribution to the bills. If the electricity/wifi gets turned off it would be her problem and may encourage her to reach an agreement.

I suspect that you are going to have to push this through the courts though to get her ordered to comply.

I am going to see if I move out can I pay the interest only on the mortgage or if we can take a mortgage break. If this is possible - I'll do this.

I know this is quite separate but it appears my e has started some kind of 'smear campaign' against me.
Telling people I have stolen money from her. That I've been very cold and cruel. That I have told her it's none of her business if I'm seeing someone. All of these are the opposite actually. She has done all of these things to me.

I've noticed mutual 'friends' distance themselves from me. Invite her to see them and haven't included me.
All the advice online says to ignore this and not to respond but it's horrible for me to see my reputation tarnished and I wonder if it will effect my business.

Is there any advice around this? Have any of you experienced this and what did you do?