Advice please - coercive control?

[rosesarentred3]

I'll start by saying if anyone recognises me from other threads I've created under a different name, please do not put those links on this post as all the info added together would make me easily identifiable to friends and family.

After being in my marriage for 10 years, I can see now that I believe my partner is controlling. I see a therapist who feel strongly that this is happening.

There are too many examples to list but I'll list a few:

Starting random arguments about my family out of nowhere, it literally could be anything. Then DP says to me 'see, look, we're arguing because of them, look at what they're doing to us! We shouldn't have contact with them'. This is about various family members and friends. DP has fallen out with many members of my family so it's awkward to see them.

If I leave a wrapper on the side, DP will be annoyed at me, tell me off, go on and on at me about it. But then does the same herself. If I said something she'd go mad.
The other week I said one night that I was going for a shower abr her response was 'does this kitchen look clean to you? Can you honestly say this is clean? Clean the kitchen before you have a shower'.

Saying what clothes to wear and not wear. I put on some summer pants and DP says 'you really look big in them. Honestly, if you're conscious about your weight I wouldn't wear those, they make you look massive'. I'm a size 10. Not that that matters.

My work is extremely confidential. DP will ask me for confidential information about my work saying 'if you don't tell me then you don't trust me' and will badger me about it and eventually not speak to me for long periods of time because I haven't divulged information.

Tells me regularly I wouldn't survive without her. What would I do without her? How did I manage before? etc.

My confidence is so low. I rarely see my friends. I've lost loads of friends since is being together.
DP told me when we first got together that some of my friends who I saw all the time had been speaking about me behind my back saying awful things and made sure we broke ties with them so I don't see any of them anymore.

Will get really mad at my family and say it's just because she's trying to protect me. Even though there's nothing to protect me from.

We have a child. When I was pregnant she insisted that she take the shared parental leave because I'd had enough time to bond with the baby while I was pregnant so it was now her turn. So I returned to work after having the baby. I cried to dp and said I really wanted to be with the baby and couldn't bear the thought of leaving her. But this just turned into an arguments where DP would cry saying she wanted time off with the baby.
A part of me felt like it was the right thing to do because DP continuously told me I wouldn't manage on my own, that I'd probably forget to do what I needed to do with the baby etc. and I really started to worry that would be true and agreed for her to take the leave instead.

Anyway - what I wonder is, what do I do now? I feel like I can't be in this relationship. I don't feel loved. I haven't ever felt loved in this relationship. Do I just leave? In which case this means selling the house and sorting shared custody etc.

Do I try to spend some time building my confidence first? Making friends? Going out more? Meeting people?
I'm always at home. I work at home. Then when I'm not working, I'm always with DP to the point where I now feel extreme anxiety whenever I go somewhere without DP.

Today I was planning a day with DC. DP then started a big argument with me, slagging of my family again etc.
however, I came out.
Is it completely pathetic that I feel chuffed with myself for coming out? I wasn't as anxious as I usually am. Years ago, I wouldn't have batted an eye at coming out on my own.

It all feels such a mess.

I am so pleased you have made the decision to go to the police before she does to protect yourself. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

OP, gently, you need to stop explaining and reasoning with her.

Reasons are for reasonable people.

She is just going to use everything against you. All this information will do is fire up her defensive mode which as you can see can be very dangerous.

She's never going to genuinely see your point of view, or genuinely be sorry. Stop trying to get any kind of validation or closure from her.

When she wants information just be a broken record and refuse to get into the weeds with her.

'I've realised we will be better apart'
'Our relationship has come to an end'
'I'm sorry you feel that way but I've realised we'll be better apart'
'I'm also sad our relationship has ended but I know we will be better apart'

And so on.

No details. No examples. No reasons.

@rrosesarentred3 good luck with the police, I can't imagine how hard this is for you, please use the resources you've been so brave to arrange and leave with your DC. It will be the hardest but best thing you could ever do. As previous poster said, we're rooting for you x

@SunRainStorm

You're right. When she keeps asking and asking and asking, I find myself giving in and giving an example of something which she apologises for and explains away.

Yesterday she went through a series of phases -

The first part of the day she was asking 'please can we sort this for us and DC'.
'Please, i can change. I've had trauma you don't know about but I promise I'll see a therapist and work it out for us to be a happier family'.

Then an hour or so later she said
"Do you know what, people are going to think this is my fault, when really you are also to blame. I'm like this because of you. I get angry because of you. I don't want to be this person but you make me this person".

She then said when it came to my maternity leave "I didn't hold a gun to your head. Remember that. Yes, you were scared of my reaction and you were worried how I'd be if you had the maternity leave. But just remember you made the decision not to. I didn't hold a gun to your head. It was your decision".

She also said yesterday she wants it taking into account that she lost wages by having a year off with DC. She was paid around 5 months pay and statutory pay as well.
But said she had a year off and lost wages so she wants that taking into account.

She also said she wants us to live right next to each other, within walking distance. I told her I don't want this and I won't be choosing a house that close to her.

DO NOT discuss any terms of the divorce with her. You need the advice of a solicitor and most likely the divorce settlement will be negotiated via that route because she will not be reasonable.

You need to get either you or her out of there, it is not safe to simply wait and see.

How are you feeling?

OP this is why you need to just leave. Leave now leave today.

She's trying to wear you down every moment of everyday and force you into conversation and negotiation.

That is dangerous for you and leaves you vulnerable.

As PP said all of this needs to be negotiated from a distance and through a solicitor.

It will or work otherwise.

Please call the police today and get to your mums.

Otherwise you'll just go round in circles with her and one day she'll crack you and she would've offered either one too many reasons to stay, or one too many reasons why people wouldn't believe you.

Don't let it get to that point.

Your DS is witnessing this ongoing abuse of you.

Stop discussing anything with her, tell her to put it in writing. Then ignore/hand over to your solicitor. This is going to bet in increasingly nasty.

Go grey rock, specific phrases that you reply with and put on repeat.

"I'm not willing to discuss this, put it in writing"

"I'm not willing to discuss this, it will be sorted as part of the divorce"

"I'm. It willing to discuss this, it's with my solicitor"

Just leave - go to your mums. Your partner is a very very damaged woman.

Leave. Strike while the iron is hot before you lose your momentum. Otherwise you will lose your nerve and will be kicking yourself down the line. Act now, act fast!

I totally agree that you desperately need distance between you and no good will come of prolonging it, but are you worried about the actual act of leaving, OP? Do you fear what will happen if she's around when you're actually going?

Sorry if I've missed this info, but does she have to go out to work, so you can leave then? Or could someone come and be there to support you when you're actually leaving?

@Kangaroobrain
She has got a sick note from work so she will be home all this week which makes things harder.
I don't know if I'm worried about the act of actually leaving. The domestic abuse charity said they can arrange for a police escort if I need it.

I think it's the thought of uprooting everything and DC to somewhere else. My mums house is tiny and there's very little space.
Rent round here is so so much for very little. It's around £1200 a month for something tiny. Plus I do still need to pay the mortgage and bills on this house even if I do rent somewhere else. I can't afford both.

Op it's doesn't actually matter what's the ins and outs of it are, in terms of your right to break up. People split for all kinds of reasons: growing apart, falling out of love, affairs, people changing, just not wanting to be with that person anymore! So when she is trotting out all of these semi accusatory lines in a an effort to make you think its all your fault: so what!

At the end of the day, she is abusive. You are scared of you. She has been horrible to you. She is a manipulative bully. This you know. We know. And you know what? Nothing is ever black and white, and even victims have their flaws like all humans do-still doesn't excuse her awful behaviour or make the relationship salvageable. Her logic is to make you think that 'actually, maybe this is my fault so actually we should just stay together'. It's dead in the water no matter how she tries to twist it.

A long time ago, I worked with teenagers with emotional and behavioural problems and one of our mentors was talking about how they would sometimes try to turn a situation around to you, about something you did, in order to change the narrative. My mentor told me to always acknowledge it in a neutral way and move on, by saying something bland like 'that may be so, but we're not talking about that right now'.

While she is an abuser and dangerous, ultimately you can leave this relationship for any reason you want. You need to believe that you have agency over your own life and uncondition yourself to believe that she needs to give you permission to end things. She doesn't. All of your emotions are telling you that you can't do anything without her signing off on it. That's not true.

1. No matter what the circumstances are, you can leave this relationship for any reason at all and she doesn't have to agree to it. You could finish things if you didn't like her haircut, in theory.

1. She actually is an abuser and is dangerous. A healthy, normal relationship doesn't leave someone feeling frightened and alienated from their own child. If you feel like your partner is abusive, that's enough.

1. Her opinion on anything is worthless. She spins so many lies, gaslight and confuses you in order to control you. She is an incredibly flawed, damaged person and her mindset warped. You need to take ownership of your own judgement of this situation and trust your desire to leave over her desire to keep you in this utter bandage.

I'm thinking about those kidnap victims that you read about. Some of them are chained up, and some are so brainwashed to stay loyal to their captor that they are too terrified to leave. Often an opportunity strikes and they go against every ploy used by the kidnapper to keep them held hostage and make a run for it. At some point their natural sense of being imprisoned overrules all of the brainwashing.

It's clear that you are really finding yourself in there, in amidst all of the conditioning and subtle (and not so subtle) messaging and you need to stay in touch with that sense of injustice and stop waiting for her permission to leave.

She will not let you go without a fight, so you have to fight back and get out before she wears you down.

I think it's the thought of uprooting everything and DC to somewhere else

There's a saying: if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keeping getting what you always got.

I think it applies here. This relationship is over and you cant stay in it until you want a lifetime of misery. Its best to remove your baby now while she is still young.

Please get in touch with the refuge and go there. They will help you step by step.

You will also need to simultaneous apply to court for an emergency child "lives with order" to get provisional/temporary shared residency/care agreed LEGALLY.

If she is so desperate to make a go of it ask her to move out to a shared house to give you time and space. She will refuse to go.

"The domestic abuse charity said they can arrange for a police escort if I need it."

Do this, do it today. She has already discussed this with her GP. She has her ducks in a row.

@Everthenever
I have made it clear to her that nothing will change my mind. Absolutely nothing in this world will make me stay with her. I know it's going to be a very hard road ahead but I can't be with someone I'm afraid of.

I am so upset at the thought of not seeing DC every day. I can't bear it. I really can't.
But it won't make me stay because I know she'll be damaged in the long run. She is 1 now but I know babies pick up on everything.

Everything else will work out OP.

Less space, less money and more inconvenience pales nothing in comparison to growing up in an abusive environment.

Things will be sorted and it will all come out in the wash.

She's home all week to stop you from leaving. She knows you won't do it and she's got a whole week of following you around the house swinging between crying, wrenching and losing weight deliberately through not eating, and then berating you, telling you it's your fault and you are abusive and you're wrecking the family apart.

She also knows this tactic is working currently.

OP you’re doing amazing. Your strength is coming through more now. It’s so good to see. Just know though the more you engage with her the more chance she’s got of manipulating you and distorting your view to believe you are somehow at fault. You are absolutely not OP. She is expert at manipulation and she’s pulling out all the stops to regain control of you, time off work to assist herself in doing this too. Do not engage!!
The nerve of her to talk about lost earnings- what about all the money YOU lost covering all of her expenses on literally everything? And so twisted her saying “I didn’t hold a gun to your head” (but she actively and craftily and FULLY coerced you into it, so yeh, she may aswell have held a gun to your head!)
Do not worry about things like your mums house being tiny- the cage you & your baby are currently in is even tinier. And extremely harmful to you both: mentally, emotionally, financially, spirituality and yeh physically too. The physical effects of psychological harm are there too and she IS physically violent: throwing things/ pushing you. The law is totally behind you and she is factually breaking the law re coercive control.
Do what you know is right, as soon as possible. Break ups are short term pain for long term gain- especially in your case!! She’s an absolute MONSTER. You owe her NOTHING!
The sun is shining on the other side for you & your baby, keep going OP xx

You are so strong. Keep going!

We spoke last night about the house and what the plans are. Whether or not I can buy her out of the house. Which I doubt I can but I'll find out. She said she feels it's only fair she has more money. I said it's best we speak to a solicitor about this and work that out with them. She said she wants us to do it privately between ourselves but I don't. And I won't be.

This morning she is annoyed. I was up 3 times with the baby. Twice to give her a bottle. DP is saying she feels distressed that I am managing to get some sleep and that's why she left our bedroom to sleep in the other room because she doesn't like that I'm sleeping.

I feel utterly exhausted and I am actually getting very little sleep. It doesn't help that she is banging about in the night which wakes me up as well as me seeing to the baby.

I was up again at 5 am with the baby. At 7am, I woke DP up to take over as I needed an hour sleep. This is when she got annoyed and jumped out of bed saying I am making a ridiculous decision, and neither of us will be able to manage to look after the baby separately and we will both be in bad moods because of lack of sleep.

She then went downstairs and told the dog he will be the first thing to go.
She's determined to take him to either be put to sleep or a dogs home. She has said the decision has nothing to do with me because she got him a year before we met. So he is hers. Even thought we've been together 10 years.

I'm calling a mortgage advisor today and another solicitor.

I also saw my therapist again and she has made a referral to MARAC. She said she wanted to go through the checklist criteria and I scored 16. Apparently if it's 13 or more, they need to make a referral.
Do you think this is ok?

I'm worried they're going to contact my partner, or come to the house or involve social services etc.

Deliberately waking you up!!! Classic abuse.

She has not been financially disadvantaged enough for it to make a significant difference in financial settlement. Again more bullying.

She clearly is sleeping otherwise you wouldn't have had to wake her up!

I’ve been reading your updates and you’re doing so well staying strong, talking about solicitors etc. I really do think though you should consider moving out for good, even if your mum’s is small. All of this not letting you sleep, following you around, constant badgering and thinking about the next thing to emotionally blackmail you with (like the dog) is abusive and exhausting, and you need to be at your most mentally resilient for the next few months. Plus don’t you think that you still being there is giving her hope that you don’t really mean it, so she’s upping her manipulative behaviour?

If you really can’t go, can you get someone else to move in if only for a few days so she has to behave better? And/ or get some advice from the police or get them to speak to her- and warn it’s harassment? Or get a solicitor to write to her saying the same thing, that she’s harassing you in your own home and it has to stop.

By the way, she won’t kill herself or (I don’t think) the dog, she just knows that you’re a decent person so threats like this might make you stay for a few more weeks.

Legally the dog is property, same as a lamp or a rug. If you're concerned about the dog, speak to the solicitor and say you want to retain ownership of the dog.

Get it in writing to her, from your lawyer that you are concerned that she has threatened the dog, and that you are willing to give the dog a loving and consistent home.

Then she will hopefully leave the dog be. But worse case scenario, if she kills or abandons the dog it will be very clear to the court making decisions about property and custody what kind of person she is.

You're smart not to be drawn into a discussion about finances and to leave it to the lawyers. Of course she wants the larger financial settlement- does she think that makes her special? Lol, everyone who has ever divorced wanted the bigger piece of the pie and believed they deserved it. It doesn't mean they get it!