To hate how mums always have to sacrifice their career...

[rumun88]

I have 2 kids .. one 18 month old and a 6 year old. I work in a cafe for an estate, one week day and one weekend day and there's no flexibility in that I have to do a weekend day.

I've been offered a job as a GP receptionist and I would love to take it. But it's only £10.42 an hour and with it being weekdays we would need to pay childcare. Basically with the summer hols coming up, childcare for both kids would cost more than my wage. DH will cover it, but part of me is thinking what's the point when it means I'm not bringing any money to the pot technically. I'd also have to have both kids in different childcare settings which are opposite side of town by 7.30am. In my current job he works from home the 1 week day and is home the weekend day so no childcare.

So I have the choice, take the new job and get my weekends back but don't exactly earn, keep my current job and work every single weekend.. or be a SAHM.

Please help. I could cry! I was a dental nurse before kids and again childcare was an issue. We have no family support.

What would you do?

Men and women are different.
Take childbearing and breastfeeding out of the equation and tell me how are men and women different?

I actually used STEM as an example because I work in a STEM related senior role and I’m excellent at it.

But it was made more difficult for me simply because I have a vagina. I had to work harder because I’m a woman.

Again, the very definition of sexism.

Equality of opportunity does not always need to result in equality of outcome.

If more women gravitate towards certain roles, what are you actually going to do? Tell them they are 'silly pee brains' and should be doing something else? That's just as bad as telling women they should be housewives.

The issue is women don’t often have the same kind of encouragement to go into STEM just as men often don’t have the same kind of encouragement to go into childcare.

The opportunity isn’t always there, that’s the issue.

@Lambiriyani

In a marriage a man and a women are equal in terms of respect. But have different roles.

Why do they have to have different roles?

Does having a penis make you a better lawyer/doctor/firefighter/shopkeeper/undertaker? Does having a vagina make you better at putting the washing machine on? Or better at waking up in the night to do a feed? If you can point to any scientific evidence of these I'll all ears.

f more women gravitate towards certain roles, what are you actually going to do? Tell them they are 'silly pee brains' and should be doing something else? That's just as bad as telling women they should be housewives.

The question you should be asking is - why do women gravitate towards particular careers?' rather than just accepting it for what it is.

More women than men are in professional careers yet more men are in senior roles....is that because men are innately more suited to leadership roles? Or sexism?

STEM is compulsory in schools and has been for some time. There is nothing stopping anyone doing STEM-related degrees or careers these days. But why do you assume STEM is necessarily better? Because it was traditionally the preserve of men? Is forcing women in to STEM (if they're not interested) any different to giving women into what we think of as traditionally female roles?

Thete was nothing stopping me doing anything.

Not the genitals. But generally the associated genetics.

Like for example male athletes on the international level woiod beat comparable female athletes.

Men are biologically more career driven, physically stronger (then would be better at strenuous physical labour).

I'd be happily proven wrong

@norestguests

If more women gravitate towards certain roles, what are you actually going to do? Tell them they are 'silly pee brains' and should be doing something else? That's just as bad as telling women they should be housewives.

Why do you think women gravitate towards certain roles?

This thread in itself is a pretty good case study for why women tend to go for certain roles. The OP has found herself in a classic "mummy track" whereby her ability to increase her income is limited by her husband's lack of willingness to support her with childcare/pickups/domestic work. By her own admission the OP would like to build up her career but feels restricted by her husband's lack of flexibility. There are millions of women who feel they can't get remunerative jobs because their husbands' careers don't allow sufficient flexibility for them to help with domestic tasks (or more commonly the husbands can't be bothered to ask for more flexibility).

As a PP pointed out, high paying roles were historically also dominated by men (that is changing but not fast enough).

Then there's the pay gap and the fact that in many industries still women are hired and promoted much more slowly than men.

Oh and many women weren't encouraged by their families to prioritise education and work, so don't believe work is "for them".

There's a massive structural disadvantage for women across society.

No one is talking about telling women to do anything but it's a demonstrable fact that women are at a massive disadvantage in their ability to earn money compared to men once they have children.

@Lambiriyani

"biologically more career driven", eh? Can you point to any peer-reviewed evidence that demonstrates a biological underpinning to men being more "career driven"?

Can you tell me more about these "associated genetics"?

I'd be happily proven wrong

You are absolutely wrong. There is nothing biological underpinning men being more financially successful. That is social, not biological.

Men are biologically more career driven, physically stronger (then would be better at strenuous physical labour).
On average men are physically stronger than women so yes you are correct about that however there is NO EVIDENCE that men are biologically more career driven than women. Not one scrap.

Society places particular expectations on men and women with regards careers but that's not biologically driven.
Believe me...i teach and research this for a living!

Do you think boys ( and men) are more suited to STEM subjects and careers?
Do you think you made your education and career choices in a complete vacuum with no influences at all?

Where did I say that STEM is better? Just because it's compulsory in schools, it doesn't always mean that girls are encouraged just as much as boys. Even if they do show interest.

"No one is talking about telling women to do anything but it's a demonstrable fact that women are at a massive disadvantage in their ability to earn money compared to men once they have children."

Women may choose a different life balance after children. There is financial disadvantage sure, but maybe they have different priorities and values?

Men are not biologically more career driven at all. Where did you get that from?

Society pushes that onto men, not biology.

and the women who don't choose that? They are often battling with the gender pay gap, competing with men who have SAHM's at home doing everything for them and that's just a start.

I'd highly recommend reading Invisible Women for those who think that biology explains the disadvantages women face.....

@Lambiriyani Men are biologically more career driven

At this point you’ve got to be here just to wind up.

They range from 16 to 5. It's like herding sheep most days 😆

Work is not the be all and end all of life. I will get around to it at some point. But the upside is I am around for all sickness at nurseries and schools at short notice, and for all holidays throughout the academic year. I am enrolled with the OU to start a degree course in a few months which will be lovely to start doing something during the day which offers flexibility.

Work is not the be all and end all of life.

Is it for your husband?

@norestguests

Women may choose a different life balance after children. There is financial disadvantage sure, but maybe they have different priorities and values?

But why should women financially disadvantage themselves just because they have given birth to children?

Why should they have different priorities and values purely because they have given birth?

You seem to be taking as read that biology determines women's appetite to make money. There's absolutely no biological underpinning to this whatsoever. This is purely socially determined.

"and the women who don't choose that? They are often battling with the gender pay gap, competing with men who have SAHM's at home doing everything for them and that's just a start."

Possibly, but you can't tell families how they should organise themselves. Anyway there are all kinds of factors that could be seen as an advantage or disadvantage to men and women in the workplace - how many kids do they have, do their kids have special needs, are they all in good health, do they have family support? All kinds of variables. You can't blame everything on SAHMs! That's madness. It's like SAHMs arguing working women make it less acceptable for them to be home with their children. Er, no. What are you going to do about people's personal choices, realistically?

And nobody makes choices in a vacuum no, but society is ever-evolving and the norms that are internalised now, are not the same norms as 20, 50, 100 years ago. Maybe some women on here have internalised that they need to be at work to be properly valued? Or they've internalised that anything traditionally female is 'lesser' and any difference to men is 'inequality.' Those women did not make choices 'in a vacuum' any more than a SAHM did. In fact, being a SAHM is probably 'going against the grain' of societal expectations nowadays. Still, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Good lord, I have no words for this tripe. I guess you love your kids more than any of the working mothers on here, @wendyjoy. Well done, have a medal.

Of course not but it is an issue that needs to be tackled for the women who do want or need to work.

It's still expected in society for mothers to be the ones who care for their children so no, it isn't going against the grain at all.

"Why should they have different priorities and values purely because they have given birth?"

Well they may not, but also they may do. Who is to say how they should feel or what their priorities should be. Especially if they have several children? It can change your outlook.