To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

1. I mentioned seagulls because you said farm animals wouldn't exist if we didn't eat them and I was pointing out a variety of animals we don't eat that exist. I never made any reference to whether they existed in / on farmed land, but farmed land whether crop or grazing is managed land and impacts on biodiversity.

2. Again I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? There are plenty of ruminants that exist naturally, even some species of / relatives to livestock animals. If we stopped farming these animals and they were unable to survive naturally it is not necessarily a bad thing, it's certainly not an arguemnt to keep breeding them.

3. The natural life span of a cow is 20-30 years, Dairy cows get 5-6 years, beef cows 2-3 years (unless it's going for veal then it's a max of 8 months). A livestock pigs get 6 months - 3 years (12- 18 naturally), lamb 10 weeks - 6 months (10 - 12 years naturally), and chicken 6 - 12 weeks (5-10 years). So the original point stands.

4. No it's not ignorance, animal agriculture has huge impacts on biodiversity and habitat loss. As mentioned in another post, c35% - 40% (it's 40% in the UK) of that horrible monoculture you moan about goes to feeding livestock, industrial livestock farming also requires more land to be cleared for grazing than you would need for arable farming (not such as big an issue in the UK cause most of it was cleared long ago admittedly but global natural habitats are still being wiped out to accomade herds), and then there are significant impacts from managing and processing the herds. I've attached two pictures one from a UK farm and one from US one, you seriously telling me these are better for the environment and biodiversity?

Okay so the environment and climate are not your concern. The fact that many of the people who are in the industry support the conservation and management of many very very important habitats essential to our food, air, water and other ecosystem services is none of your business.

You seem to have very little knowledge of how these things effect you indirectly, ignorance is bliss I guess.

So what meaty nibbles would you want to eat at a party/bbq?

(BTW all my Jewish friends are veggies.)

@Makemyday99

they are still better than you with your fois gras eating

Then give me some suggestions about what meaty nibbles you would like to eat at a BBQ/party?

At a BBQ, I would want hot dogs with onions, and some chicken. I don’t eat a lot of meat, but I do expect to see at least one of those two.

I didn’t say I ate it just that I don’t have a problem with it

I'm talking about the people on here saying variations on 'Because it tastes nice.'

Obviously on an online forum one can't know if people are giving their full reasons. The best I can do is take people's responses in good faith.

It's funny though; I've made clear that as an omnivore I have no dog in this fight, and have explicitly said that I know many people have health reasons for eating meat. But your response still seems quite adversarial. This issue does seem to invite very strong feelings.

Nice pictures you cropped from the guardian, but you seem to extract this part of the report.

"The farm is run under a bespoke environmental management plan in conjunction with Natural England. All the cattle graze the marshes during the summer season then during the winter months, when the grass is dormant the cattle are bought back to the yard when the finishing/fattening cattle are housed in covered sheds. For clarification the length of grazing season is weather dependent, once the grass stops growing the cattle need to be yarded and fed a forage based ration in accordance with animal welfare and best practice.”

Funny that isn't it, you went for a shock factor image from the internet with no narrative.

How unusual. I'm Jewish and there aren't many vegetarians at all among my Jewish or Muslim friends. Which Jewish communities do your friends come from?

Decent meat/fish options might include chicken satay, skewers of prawns, chicken or beef with appropriate dips, prawn summer rolls, smoked salmon blinis or bagels, cod goujons with tartare sauce, little Italian beef and herb meatballs, high quality sausages or kosher viennas (not 'cocktail sausages'), prosciutto or Parma ham (not for the Jews and Muslims obviously), etc.

Why do you ask? Are you planning to make them?

Perhaps serve those options, versus a table of Quorn 'picnic eggs' or meat-substitute 'sausage rolls', and see which ones get eaten then. Be a bit more of a reasonable comparison than lovingly homemade vegetarian/vegan food versus disgusting processed junk

@BansheeofInisherin can't eat quite a few vegetables, cauliflower being one such veg! Hope that helps understand not everyone can eat the same products.

My son is allergic to milk, eggs, nuts, all legumes (soya, chickpeas, beans, peanuts etc) , pumpkin seeds and sesame.

To not then eat meat would be an incredibly restrictive diet and very difficult to get sufficient protein.

Because I enjoy meat.

I'm not massively into animals so can switch off over the reality of how they end up on our plates.

I don't like vegan meat alternatives in general.

I find vegans very self important and patronising, in general.

My reasons, my choice.

At my BBQs people bring their own meat so that isn't a problem.

I was talking about 'nibbles' and 'finger food'.

BTW I thought hot dogs were made from Mechanically Recovered Meat and were classed as "processed"? They also have a lot of pork in them, so not Kosher.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/herta-frankfurters-x10-350g

I work on the principle that our eyes are at the front, we are predators, and we have an omnivorous diet.

@MarkWithaC I apologise for seeming blunt. I'm autistic. It certainly was not my intention to be adversarial.

@Fernbreeze those things absolutely are my concern. I object to the fantasy you’re presenting whereby most meat eaters are visiting organic farms that practice “conservation grazing” and most vegans are hoovering up soy and UPFs and mono crops.

The reality is that most of the meat we eat is factory farmed. I suspect a huge chunk of it is processed beyond all recognition too.

The idea of popping into a local organic farm for your grass fed chops is a total fantasy (at a population level scale) and not even what vegans are actually protesting against.

This boggles my mind too. There are several really good reasons to not eat or at least cut down on meat and yet people refuse on some point of principle at 'not being told what to do' and because 'it tastes good'.

I’d say there’s not much more “self important” behaviour than meat eaters who are happy for an animal to die so they can eat it, despite alternatives being available.

Ah see when I mention BBQ hotdogs, I mean the proper sausages you would get from the meat aisle that you can roast etc. I don’t want tinned hotdogs in my BBQ

But I'm not talking just about farms I'm discussing meat, which includes game and farming.

Farms and love stock of all types are based where they are depending on the soil type, overall landscape ecology and climatic conditions vary around the county. They tend to be in places where growing of crops are not suitable and many of them have vast areas of habit that are managed that provide critical ecosystem services like moorlands I previously eluded too and you have chosen to ignore.

So if you stop people eating meat and remove these industries how are you going to ensure the management of the land and conserver the very fragile ecosystems they support? Because this affects every single human in the UK, even if they choose to ignore it.

I have IBS and ARFID. Life is hard enough on the food front without taking away one of the few things I can eat reliably.

We have several herds doing conservation grazing around here. They are tiny herds that live on poor or very poor land.
Two miles the other way we have a feck off big McDonald's herd. They are based on very good and and their food comes from moderate to good land.
Most meat is not from conservation grazing.

If you don't eat meat but have a pet and feed that pet meat based food, where do you think that meat comes from? Why do you feel that it's OK to feed them meat, perhaps you should stick to pets that don't eat meat?