To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

Because it is a great part of a balanced non-UPF diet that we omnivorous humans enjoy.

The processed veggie/ vegan alternatives are pretty depressing, but make lots of money for ‘big food’.

I disagree with your claim that giving up meat is necessarily better for our health. Good quality meat is better than over-processed, crappy fake meat. Many people who give up meat move on to the fake crap.

I also disagree on your claim that it is necessarily better for the environment. If you eat local, good quality, free-range meat, it probably has a smaller carbon footprint than much of the fake meat or, for that matter, veg that is flown half way across the world.

I am vegetarian. I don't eat meat. I also don't eat fake meat or other over-processed food. The current vegan trend has resulted in many restaurants serving fake meat as the veggie option, which really annoys me.

This.

Some of these vegans need to travel through the thousands of miles of wheat and corn production in France, to understand the impact of this style of farming. It’s like something out of science fiction.

Reading some of these posts, I’ve come to realise that some vegans are the woke of the food world, using their language and narratives, to try and belittle anyone who has a different opinion. I haven’t seen them call anyone a Nazi yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I have seen ‘climate’ ‘cancer’ and ‘animal welfare’ used to prop up their arguments. the usual scaremongering arguments, repeated from sales and marketing literature.

When you dig into the background of researchers and organisations in support of veganism, you usually final an animal rights founder or a plant based food producer funding research. Not that any of the above is criminal and things overlap - but everyone has an agenda and sadly, many people are dumb enough to take sales and marketing at face value.

it’s taken nearly 50 years for Nuclear energy to recover from the damage done by the oil and gas lobby.

So most of what you posted is flawed.
For example you say A plant based diet is better for overall and long term health. and then post links to scientific papers that show that a “plant rich diet” is best- a plant rich diet has some meat in it.

Secondly, the paper you posted conclusion that the vegan diet is best for the environment defined “best for the environment” as lowest greenhouse gas emissions. The environment and our climate depends on dozens more things in addition to greenhouse gas emissions so this definition is extremely flawed because it ignores the damage to the environment on other, equally important environmental factors such as ecosystems, soil health, food chain disruption, wildlife extinction, higher pollution from pesticides and artificial fertilisers and so on.

Excellent post.

As far as I know 'plant based diet' was never originally intended to mean vegan. That is a relatively recent change in language use. Originally, a plant based diet meant an omnivore who eats a wide array of fruit and vegetables, a reasonable amount of dairy and meat with a small amount of grains and little to no processed foods. Like a near inverse of the food pyramid. So yes, plant based diets are almost certainly the absolute best for your long term health. But only if you are using it to mean healthy omnivore who eats lots of plants. And it shouldn't even need science to prove really, as it's just common sense.

I don’t agree with any of your post. It’s not a shocking story, it’s real life and what I witnessed, OP asked a question and I answered the question.

I like the taste of meat. Cutting out meat would reduce the variety of foods we can eat. It's extremely difficult to obtain as much iron from plant based sources.

That said, I fully understand why people don't eat meat. I'll be totally honest and say if I allowed myself to think about it a lot I'd probably stop eating meat, but don't want to for the reasons outlined above.

You know, you could defeat Big Industry and their evil designations by just eating vegetables more often? Local ones? Of which there are plenty.

The choice is not between eating meat at every meal or eating fake meat with a garnish of avocados at every meal. It's between eating meat less often and eating more veggies.

First, we don't eat badgers, squirrels, foxes, frogs, otters, seagulls, etc., in this country and they all exist quite happily. Not in areas where monocropping of plant crops occurs. And make no mistake, replacing grazing land with monocropping (and you have to or let billions of humans starve to death) would push many species to extinction. I don’t know why you even mentioned seagulls to be honest in your list.

Secondly, most live stock is raised to get from birth to slaughter house as quickly and as big as possible, there's no conservation elements.
The fact they are born, live and then die versus not existing is de facto conservation. They also cannot survive in the wild any more than a persons pet dog can. So even if there were habitat for them, and we simply abandoned them, they’d die.

Third, I'm not sure arguing that something should continue to be brought into existence just to be horribly killed a few weeks - months later is a solid arguement for anything. The average lifespan of a U.K. farm cow is 5-6yrs.

Finally, intensive animal agricult has a negative impact on other species, so if your concern is centred around biodiversity eating meat is not a great idea. This is simply ignorance. Grazing land has far more biodiversity and supports far more wildlife species from butterflies to reptiles to birds to mammals than any fields with plant crops. It is second best behind wilderness/preserve lands.

The point you don't agree with my post does not make it not factual. Care to point out where my post is inaccurate then?

This is what will happen though, it shows an absolute misunderstanding of agriculture.

This map shows the general land classification for the UK. The blue areas are where you can grow fruit and veg, predominantly the Grade 1 darker blue. Light blue will be root vegetables, no soft fruits or salad veg and lower yield.

The green you see for most of the country is Grade 3, the best of it (3a) you can do grains, potatoes, sugar beet etc… the rest is mostly high yield grass for animals. The remainder is basically no crops, only good for grass grazing.

Feed into this, to keep those top grades producing well they need fertilising, crop rotations with grass and clover leys to fix nitrogen, cattle to walk on it and urinate on it to help soil health and structure.

Unless you really like eating grass, farmers can’t just plant food where cattle graze. They can’t just plant fruit and veg where they grow cattle feed. Such wild misinformation to say farmers will just plant crops where animals are.

*isn’t what will happen

Excellent post and it’s worth mentioning even the grass depends on the grazing of cows & sheep to propagate and survive.

Appreciate this is anecdotal, but I was vegetarian for nearly twenty years, vegan for two. Nowi eat meat, and probably eat more than most.

My health is better. I'm stronger, I have more energy. I tried to eat healthily as a veggie, cooked from scratch a lot, and especially as vegan (it was before the days of there being vegan processed options)

I simply couldn't eat enough calories as a veggie. I was underweight and had some associated health problems with it. Osteoarthritis runs in my family and was a risk for me.

Now I eat meat, I still cook mainly from scratch and I have more energy, no weight related health issues, I'm physically stronger.

I do question the research on meat being unhealthy if it's chosen well and cooked well and part of a well balanced diet (ie with enough veg/legumes/variety)

@RoyalGala

Do you drink Almond Milk?

How do you feel about the billions of bees that are killed to produce that product?

As has been pointed out, the scenes you describe will not have happened in the UK, or if they did, that farm will have absolutely been closed down. But you do have to confront the fact that animals die whichever way you eat; it is not more virtuous to eat vegan.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

It isn't anecdotal. Meat is a requirement for many micronutrients that humans need to optimise their health

Definitely not true. I’ve seen some absolute bullshit coming out of vegans mouths including shit like their baby doesn’t need sun cream because she’s raising the baby vegan… not quite sure how that works but there we go

It tastes nice. It is easier to have a diabetic friendly diet using meat and fish than it as a vegetarian. I like veggie food, but I am lactose intolerant and most plant-based dairy alternatives are incredibly bad for my sugars.

Your point is a bit like saying:

A woman is being abused by her partner but at least she has a home.

A child who is living in poverty is being sold to a 45 year old man to marry, at least she will not be living in poverty.

It’s a low standard and you are invalidating the human or animal in question. Denying basic standards is a moral issue.

I mean, there is no need to have meat or fish every day. I think looking at sustainable options is the way forward. Intense farming is not good for the environment. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to go vegan/ veggie. There is a balance!

So you are not disputing my facts, also please do me a favour reply to my previous posts as you would be the only non meat eater to reply to them.

You seem to have very selective replies I wonder why, I thought you wanted to promote your meat free diet.

Although you will not answer them as you obviously cannot.

I don’t drink almond milk.

They were in-fact in the UK, you could research it.

I am not denying nothing dies for me to eat.

BUT I will not buy into an industry that relies on the systematic abuse and slaughtering of billions of animals every year.