To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

I used to work in an abattoir working on the line so don't have the squeamishness that a lot of people have over killing animals. As long as it's done humanely it doesn't bother me. I like to eat meat from animals that haven't been transported long distances but don't always.

Meat isn't expensive as a little goes a long way. If I eat steak I only have 100g, it's plenty. The same goes for other meat or fish. My plant/carb/meat ratio is heavily loaded towards plant

If you eat the right type of Meat and fish and if you cook it properly then I consider it perfectly healthy.

I really enjoy meat and fish.

I find it a bit odd that people who are vegetarian for animal welfare reasons aren't vegan. It's as though they care about animals but not quite enough to
Give up animal products properly.

Firstly I like eating meat, feel better for it and I mostly know what I’m am eating because I grow it.

the environmental reasoning doesn’t cut it for us. Being rural we are surrounded by commercial gardens who are under the pump to produce acceptable looking produce and in sufficient quantities for it to be a viable business.

Hand in hand with that are things that like to eat produce that are not human. These need to be sprayed out against.

The paddocks are deeply tilled/ploughed between crops which upsets biological soil life, yet I can wander out into any of our paddocks, put the spade in and come up with a decent quantity of thriving worm life. Our topsoil remains in its paddock, not washed down the road into an adjoining creek.

Having said that, to achieve that comes at a price. Biological fert and practices are more expensive than chemical/manufactured ones and we have to educate supermarkets not to reject all wobbly fruit and vege. Yes it’s a bit of a fad but still tonnes of produce is thrown away regularly.

Consumers are already under financial pressure, if vege if going to cost more to finance better practices, is everyone going to feel happy about that?

there is much more that can be done in the name of best practice for the environment and growing food but expecting others to give up meat for it is misguided.

So your answer is kill 90% of cattle and let the humans eat their feed instead? This is the way to reduce animal suffering and death?

🤦🏻‍♀️ Does eating meat make people stupid?

I do think that the meat and dairy industries are, broadly, extremely unethical.

That said, I’m only vegetarian and not vegan. Largely because I found giving up meat to be extremely difficult and I cannot currently muster the willpower to give up all dairy too (I’ve cut back, but still eat cheese and products containing egg multiple times per week).

I have other vices that I should give up too, but it isn’t always easy.

I find it a bit odd that people who are vegetarian for animal welfare reasons aren't vegan. It's as though they care about animals but not quite enough to give up animal products properly.

I suppose it's a bit like having 2 children instead of 3, or flying once a year instead of several times, or walking 3 days a week. Every little helps.

This is a really great article to read about why livestock are so integral to all of agricultural food production.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

I work in agriculture but was a vegetarian for all of my teenage years, although I was mostly influenced by things I saw from PETA and not the reality of agriculture having grown up in the suburbs. Now I’ve got a degree in agriculture and land management and managed land all around the country I eat meat. I’ve managed nature reserves, National Parks, AONBs etc… Soil degradation is an absolutely enormous issue and livestock are key to preventing further degradation. Equally things like deforestation as a result of wild deer overgrazing is an issue that is causing huge environmental problems are require culling to manage population numbers.

Carbon emissions are only part of the story but livestock agriculture helps to sequester carbon in grassland. Anecdotally a colleague told me that at Holcombe Moor they were struggling to get enough sheep to come and graze the moor to help with the
sphagnum moss restoration. I know one of the nature reserves I managed we really struggled to find enough sheep to graze the chalk grassland wildflower meadows (one of the rarest habitats in the world!) Without livestock the habitat can’t thrive.

I’m vegetarian and think it’s better to have a happy meat eater than a miserable veggie/vegan. People are very attached to food and getting what they want, how they like it, in general and for many this is more important to them than animal suffering. I don’t feel the same but I don’t judge as I’ve got plenty of daft things where I think my wishes are more important than that of others too.

Has anyone actually READ the long list of weird ingredients on one of those fake meat meals? Yuk. A steak is definitely healthier than all the garbage that is in that!

😂😂😂

I find it a bit odd that people who are vegetarian for animal welfare reasons aren't vegan. It's as though they care about animals but not quite enough to Give up animal products properly.
That’s me. I agree that it is an ethically inconsistent position, though I think doing something is better than doing nothing (and I haven’t replaced the meat in my diet with additional dairy; I’ve actually reduced my dairy intake).

My honest reason?…. I’m not the most amazing cook and know that my family enjoy and will eat what they know. We definitely have meat free days and eat a lot of fish instead of red meat. But I’m just not competent enough to go veggie. One day, when life is less hectic I will manage it though. For lots of reasons.

Bacon butty

It should be left up to the individual and, as ever, people will see things differently BUT veganism in particular is becoming a bit of a dog-whistle for the extreme right (who seem to have to hate the same things - Meghan Markle, Greta Thunberg, climate change etc). It's genuinely pathetic.

If I had a pound for every butt hurt 'man' I see on SM who feels the need to brag about the amount of steak they eat when seeing a vegan post, as if it makes them look hard or something 🙄

Twunts.

@inspiredish name change fail from your OP?

All things in moderation, is v boring, but also v sound advice...

I only eat meat about twice a week when we get some nice lamb

If you were to watch the animals , squealing knowing death is ahead of them, see them being winched up and their throats cut and still eat meat then so be it. Burgers and sausages wrapped in plastic are detached from this. I don't eat meat or consume dairy because I love animals and want no one to suffer an agonising death just for something I like the taste of.

No, they would die out. It really isn’t very complicated.

🤣🤣

@PhoenixIsFlying I've been on a kill line. I've seen what happens.

I can't get enough protein without meat. I do make sure I don't waste any meat.

This thread makes me think eating anything is problematic ethically and environmentally.

They’d start starving and then you’d send in the Army to “put them down” by machine gunning them and then burning the bodies. It’s not complicated but it’s a horrifying thing to contemplate stopping feeding 90% of farm animals.

It’s also exactly what we did to horses when cars were invented. This “dying out” isn’t as neat and humane as you think it would be.

Plus you’re ignoring the fact farm animals are part of the environment and essential to all ecosystems in the world. You can’t just let 90% of them die out without collapsing the environment globally.

Purplefoalfoot
If someone said to you , would you like to live on earth for a bit , then get transported tightly packed to a place where you will line up to get your throat slit. What would you choose?
Also they would not die out. There are enough animal lovers who would keep livestock.

I’m vegetarian because of the productive resources that go into meat farming and my first hand experience of working in areas of ultra poverty in sub Saharan Africa, not because I care enough about animals to stop eating meat. I very rarely eat fake meat or protein because I don’t like the taste or texture. I think people get defensive because ultimately it feels a little weird to say “I like to eat dead animals” so they have to wang on about how weird vegetarians are for eating burgers that aren’t made of meat and silly things like that.

Not enough animal lovers would be able to afford or have the time to keep livestock to keep the ecosystem going.