Permanently banned for ‘promoting hate’

[RumAndReisling]

Following ten years uneventful membership of a major social media site I have been permanently banned for ‘promoting hate’.

Never again will I be able to participate on that site.

My crime? Saying that if you had given birth to a child, there was no way you could literally change sex and produce semen to father one.

Is this not a statement of fact, or is this now unacceptable to say?

AIBU to say that my husband isn’t able to give birth?

I bet you pride yourself on being kind, don't you?
Ageism is fine though.

The vast vast majority of transwomen are not intersex, they are men.

ok

I’ll try again.

All trans women are male. It’s the only objective qualification.

@Squarepegz ok, so please can you actually explain what was wrong with what the OP posted and why it was right she was banned? What is wrong with the statement that someone who produces eggs cannot then become someone who produces sperm? Genuinely, I'd like to know.

@Squarepegz I don't believe I have said my age, have I?

Au contraire. I had my baby at 25 and was on here for great advice and whatnot.

I'm 30 now.

I suspect I don't fit the box you want to peg Mumsnetters into...

Me too because I am a little confuddled with the whole thing.

The only way for some people this statement can't be hateful is if the person saying it bows down to the mantra Transwomen are Women, and all the other lies that come with agreement of that

So in order for it to never be hateful you've got to be happy with going along with lies and non fiction. And the consequences of going along with this are too much of a cost for me.

I think it was Magdalene Burns who said in this context, something along the lines of "I'd rather be unkind than lie"

I'm quite sure gender identity isn't but gender reassignment is.

Also to state that humans can't change sex is an opinion upheld in law now (Maya Forstarter case).

THIS.

People need to wake up. Even if you don't care if people can tell the truth about biological sex in particular, we're entering a dangerous time if it's accepted that people can be silenced for telling the truth and speaking about material reality.

I am not an expert in this area or connected to anyone affected by a DSD, but I believe from what I've read that nobody can have both a male and a female reproductive system.

An extremely small number of people have a disorder of sexual development that affects they way their internal or external sex organs develop. But they are still either male or female in virtually all cases. A tiny proportion of that small number have partial development of the sex organs of the other sex - but they are still male or female. So far in humans there have only ever been 2 (two) recorded cases of actual hermaphroditism where the individual had both sets of fully developed organs and was fertile. However, even in those cases, 1 had viable sperm but not eggs; the other had viable eggs but not sperm.

And I doubt either of those 2 people knew the PPs mum.

@ASGIRC A transwoman (man) cannot produce breastmilk. If it was any other male, and you saw him posing with a baby sucking his nipple - what would you think?

Why, what possible reason, would a male human being have, for posing with a baby girl sucking his nipples? It's a fetish used for attention-seeking at BEST. At worst, it is paedophilia.

Try and use CRITICAL THINKING, and not jump to 'transphobia' every.single.time you read anything about trans people. No stable man would pose with a baby sucking his tit.

99% of the public are calling it paedophilia. Because that, is what it would appear to be, if he were any other male e.g a male who identified as a male, with a baby sucking his tit and the baby gets nothing out of it. So why do it?

I really liked the analogy of it being like silencing someone who said person A (6ft) was taller than person B (5ft4). It's exactly this. There is no value judgement in saying A is taller than B, it's not saying being tall or short is better.

We're in a time when saying person B is shorter than person A is 'hurtful' and 'bigoted'. We're being forced to lie and pretend that B is taller than A, even though everyone can clearly see it's not true.

There is an alternative place to post yes but I guess all of AIBU could be posted on a specific board. Sex and gender threads do seem to be being picked up as "shouldn't be here " type's currently

@dimorphism I like this analogy too. It would be like saying just because person B feels or thinks he is taller than Person A (when that is not the case), then we have to pretend that is true to avoid hurting Person B's feelings.

It's a great example.

I'm a woman who can't have children and have no problem with basic facts. Only women have children. Don't co-opt my experience to shore up your argument.

I've been deeply offended by trans describing themselves as infertile women. In fact, a transwoman on this website once told me his infertility was sadder than mine, because at least I had a womb. He was a father.

There's a difference between a scientific fact expressed in a neutral way, and expressed in a goady way. Most neurotypical people can pick up on the underlying intent and tone.

Of course someone born a woman with female biology cannot give birth to a child and then go to produce sperm. However, someone born a woman can change their gender identity to male and even have a sex change operation to become more physically male. Refusing to recognise such a person as a father is hurtful.

Plenty of men born men cannot father children naturally - if they have a child using donor sperm and raise that child, no one says they're not fathers.

The OP's husband cannot give birth. But if his sperm wasn't viable, and the OP used a donor, would anyone refuse to recognise him as the father? If so, if the OP's husband genuinely changed his identity to female and parented the child, why would you refuse to recognise the OP's spouse as a mother?

We live in a society where raising a child is seen more important than biological parentage.

The OP's complaint would be more interesting with all the missing context...

About 10 posts equated it to pedophilia.
Thats pretty hateful, if you ask me.

//

For a man to take a photo of himself with his shirt unbuttoned to reveal his bare breast and then hold a newborn baby there specifically near his exposed nipple is absolutely skirting on a sexual fetish. That was not for the child that's for him.

Don’t let your bank know or they will close your accounts! Crazy isnt it

what stops you setting up a new email address with a random name and then setting up a new account on said social media page in your nickname??! Hmm 🤔

Exactly. There is no benefit at all to the baby. In fact, the baby will probably be getting upset and frustrated as no milk is coming out. It is purely for the benefit of the man which raises its own questions.

GaspOde your post about 45 minutes ago 👏

@Gilead if someone is intersex and can give birth, that person, even with intersex, is FEMALE. No male person, intersex or not, can give birth.

Why are we so concerned about what people have in their pants? Er, maybe because words have meanings, and what is in mens pants can be used to rape and hurt women and women need spaces away from male bodies. Maybe that's why? Do you ever take time to truly think about things, before asking such absurd questions?

Yes, I fully agree.

It's interesting how often in recent days these two issues ARE being conflated on this site. And it's happening hot on the heels of the widespread, crude, ill-justified generalization on SM that any critique of GI is akin to alignment with alt right US views, sometimes even Nazism.

There are no prizes for guessing who's making this embarrassingly tacit connection. Or, as is likely, plopping onto MN as they've done before, and stirring up the discussion so they can post screenshots all over SM showing how racist Mumsnetters are, and that 'look! We told you so: being critical of gender and critical of skin colour amount to one and the same thing. Feminism = fascism!'

It's not the first time, and it looks as though they're coming for the site again. Plus sa change ...

BTW as is said frequently men know what makes a woman when what they need is specicific to that sex.

I have a theory (born in the early 2000s, on the day that ivillage.com management took a hatchet to their golden goose). All Forums Eventually Die By Their Own Hand.

Somebody gets a germ of a great idea. A ball starts rolling. It catches on. Tweaks and major reworking iron out bugs and add features. Success happens. People at various levels behind the scenes get a bit of a fizz from the power they have over who gets to say what. The users, generating the content that makes the place a going concern, get relegated to “civilians” status.

The “officer class” of people behind the scenes now really addicted (often entirely unknowingly) to being the arbitrator of right v wrong. A couple of power crazed bad apples, or a few people with a very big bee in their bonnet come on board. They shift the line of Right v Wrong. TOS goes from “don’t be a git” to “Abide By My Personal Values or Beliefs, The Line Is Where I draw it, Depending On How Much I Like Who Said It”

The “civilians” over time feel increasingly like they have to cower. They let some excommunication go. But soon it’s people they like. They think they are next, or just resent toeing a be kind/polite line they didn’t choose to point beyond the tolerable. Forum dies. Sometimes really fast, sometimes quite slowly.

It’s the only thing that gives me hope. I was so excited by the possibilities of web 2.0. I completely failed to see the potential unintended consequences. That the snake appears doomed to always eat its own tail until it chokes turned out to be the silver lining.

I’m pretty sure in ancient time quite a few of the people behind the scenes of SM platforms would have seen themselves as Gods. Or at least a mouthpiece of the Gods. At least we can unplug from the SM version of “drunk on power” people. And increasingly, I think we probably should. Well I certainly should. It’s getting rarer and rarer that I come off any forum or platform feeling better than when I clicked it open.

The difference is that on here the cancel crew don’t generally get their way.