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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Permanently banned for ‘promoting hate’

390 replies

RumAndReisling · 04/07/2023 13:32

Following ten years uneventful membership of a major social media site I have been permanently banned for ‘promoting hate’.

Never again will I be able to participate on that site.

My crime? Saying that if you had given birth to a child, there was no way you could literally change sex and produce semen to father one.

Is this not a statement of fact, or is this now unacceptable to say?

AIBU to say that my husband isn’t able to give birth?

OP posts:
lieselotte · 04/07/2023 15:11

TheKeatingFive · 04/07/2023 13:57

Unless you've been living in a cave for last ten years, everyone should know the risk of comments like that on Facebook, Reddit etc

And what ... we should just sit back and take it? Reality be damned?

Yes, saying the Emperor has no clothes on is not allowed.

shinepud · 04/07/2023 15:11

My mum actually knows a hermaphrodite ( and have vaguely read a few controversies where female athletes were banned for having too much (natural) testosterone. Equally, a man I know started lactating! So yes, biological sex can be a spectrum.

That said, I do think a lot of artificial gender transitioning (through artificially induced hormones etc) could be body dysmorphia (which I used to have badly) or is an expression against arbitrary societal norms, like "men can't wear skirts and makeup, so I have to become a woman". Men can absolutely wear skirts and makeup imo – historically, males were the first gender to wear makeup and high heels, even before women. They also wore skirts daily.

araiwa · 04/07/2023 15:12

GrinAndVomit · 04/07/2023 15:05

Are you not aware of women who have been arrested and charged with hate crimes for writing such biological truths online?

Are you not aware this a thread about being banned from social media?

shinepud · 04/07/2023 15:12

Sorry wanted to say in brackets - not sure if hermaphrodite is the updated medical term but that's what she called it back then

GrinAndVomit · 04/07/2023 15:14

araiwa · 04/07/2023 15:12

Are you not aware this a thread about being banned from social media?

Where do you think the posts were made for which the women were arrested?

Why are you trying to pretend the two issues are not at all connected?

Verv · 04/07/2023 15:15

It is a statement of fact, but fact is irrelevant when compared to feelings. You're supposed to submit to the new dogmas that defy material reality.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 04/07/2023 15:16

shinepud · 04/07/2023 15:11

My mum actually knows a hermaphrodite ( and have vaguely read a few controversies where female athletes were banned for having too much (natural) testosterone. Equally, a man I know started lactating! So yes, biological sex can be a spectrum.

That said, I do think a lot of artificial gender transitioning (through artificially induced hormones etc) could be body dysmorphia (which I used to have badly) or is an expression against arbitrary societal norms, like "men can't wear skirts and makeup, so I have to become a woman". Men can absolutely wear skirts and makeup imo – historically, males were the first gender to wear makeup and high heels, even before women. They also wore skirts daily.

Just in case you weren't aware if you ever see an article with words similar to "a woman with naturally high testosterone" it's usually a male with a DSD (see Caster Semenya, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi, none of them are female).

GrinAndVomit · 04/07/2023 15:17

shinepud · 04/07/2023 15:11

My mum actually knows a hermaphrodite ( and have vaguely read a few controversies where female athletes were banned for having too much (natural) testosterone. Equally, a man I know started lactating! So yes, biological sex can be a spectrum.

That said, I do think a lot of artificial gender transitioning (through artificially induced hormones etc) could be body dysmorphia (which I used to have badly) or is an expression against arbitrary societal norms, like "men can't wear skirts and makeup, so I have to become a woman". Men can absolutely wear skirts and makeup imo – historically, males were the first gender to wear makeup and high heels, even before women. They also wore skirts daily.

Sex is a binary.
Everyone is either male or female.
There’s no third sex.

There’s no spectrum. People aren’t “more male/ female” or “less male/female” than others of their sex.

Some people have medical conditions or DSDs linked to their sex. It doesn’t make them less male or female.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/07/2023 15:17

Hermaphrodite is not a term used by scientists or doctors these days. Most people involved in this area either professionally or as a patient or relative of a patient would prefer a term like DSD, standing for disorders or differences of sexual development. I am not an expert in this area or connected to anyone affected by a DSD, but I believe from what I've read that nobody can have both a male and a female reproductive system. What can happen is that something goes wrong at a very early stage of development and an individual ends up with a partially developed system, sometimes with characteristics of both sexes. My understanding is that it will still be possible to say whether that person is male or female, but sometimes it's very difficult socially for them to find their place.

None of this, though, has anything to do with gender identity, which is not usually linked to any physical issues at all.

Prettylittleroses · 04/07/2023 15:18

I’m maybe to new to understand but is their not a sub forum for this content.?

Captainheyho · 04/07/2023 15:18

I genuinely worry about my children growing up in the world as it is….chest feeding, etc. it drives me mad.

I have no problem with trans people but accept you’re trans and that there are differences between identification and biological genders.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 04/07/2023 15:19

ASGIRC · 04/07/2023 15:02

In this example, yes, the person might just be rude or inept.

However, in the context of trans people, from what Ive read here on MN, it is ALWAYS hateful. All you have to do is go on the Feminism board and read literally any thread about trans people (trans women seem to be the biggest target).

Most posts there will even equate a trans woman to a pedophile.

It is not just stating the fact that a trans woman cannot give birth or a trans man does not produce sperm. Sure, those are facts. But Ill bet anything the OP did not just state the facts.

Most posts there will even equate a trans woman to a pedophile.

If you read the board, you know that's a lie. It's not hateful to say men can't be and aren't women. There's no possible way that anyone can even suggest that without being called transphobic.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 04/07/2023 15:19

Conkersinautumn · 04/07/2023 14:12

Gender identity is a protected characteristic. I don't see why you think you spouting conspiracy theories and hate is somehow OK. There are agreed terms of use, review them.

No it isn't, gender reassignment is. So is sex.

ChaToilLeam · 04/07/2023 15:20

It is ridiculous that you can be banned for speaking biological truth. Men cannot give birth. No man ever has.

wutheringkites · 04/07/2023 15:20

@GrinAndVomit

Look, I get that you are trying to support a op here. In case you missed what I've told you twice, I am gender critical. But op's second post is wrong - women are not simply defined by their ability to give birth.

Do I think men can give birth? No.
Do I believe that biological sex can be changed? No
Do I think the definition of 'woman' should be based on feelings rather than biology? No.

But for a group of posters so obsessed with science, accuracy about definitions should matter, even if being made by someone on your side.

KentuckyFriedChicken83 · 04/07/2023 15:21

@AmuseBish It's transphobic to use sex and gender interchangeably?

loislovesstewie · 04/07/2023 15:21

Your mum does not know a hermaphrodite. There are extremely few documented cases of any individual having both male and female sexual organs ,either primary or secondary characteristics. People with a DSD are always male of female but have some difference of development which may give the appearance that the individual is not of their biological sex .

2bazookas · 04/07/2023 15:22

,AIBU to say that my husband isn’t able to give birth?

Only because he still hasn't started his periods.

Apparently if he uses the womens toilets, pees sitting down, and asks to borrow tampax, he can grow a womb of his own. Didn't Virginia Woolf write an essay about that?

ASGIRC · 04/07/2023 15:22

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 04/07/2023 15:19

Most posts there will even equate a trans woman to a pedophile.

If you read the board, you know that's a lie. It's not hateful to say men can't be and aren't women. There's no possible way that anyone can even suggest that without being called transphobic.

I literally read those exact comparisons on a post about a transwoman who posted a photo of her with a baby to the breast.

About 10 posts equated it to pedophilia.
Thats pretty hateful, if you ask me.

MorganFreewoman · 04/07/2023 15:22

Testina · 04/07/2023 13:51

Context is all.

What context is needed? It’s a biological fact that if you were born female you will never be able to produce sperm.

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 04/07/2023 15:24

araiwa · 04/07/2023 13:54

What I think doesn't matter

Unless you've been living in a cave for last ten years, everyone should know the risk of comments like that on Facebook, Reddit etc

I thought being gender critical was protected by law?

KentuckyFriedChicken83 · 04/07/2023 15:25

@loislovesstewie My first husband was male on the outside but was found to have ovaries and a uterus.

GrinAndVomit · 04/07/2023 15:26

wutheringkites · 04/07/2023 15:20

@GrinAndVomit

Look, I get that you are trying to support a op here. In case you missed what I've told you twice, I am gender critical. But op's second post is wrong - women are not simply defined by their ability to give birth.

Do I think men can give birth? No.
Do I believe that biological sex can be changed? No
Do I think the definition of 'woman' should be based on feelings rather than biology? No.

But for a group of posters so obsessed with science, accuracy about definitions should matter, even if being made by someone on your side.

Gestating and giving birth is the basic biological function of the female species.

Iamgoingtohell · 04/07/2023 15:26

araiwa · 04/07/2023 14:44

On their website, it is

I'm not saying I agree with their position, but they make it very clear what will happen if you break their rules

I’d love to know the website that bans stating facts

Arewehumanorarewecupboards · 04/07/2023 15:27

They are going to have to rewrite a whole lot of textbooks!

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