To find the "why did you marry him" comments unhelpful

[AtTheZoo]

Every thread about some dickhead bloke has comment after comment

"Ah he can't have been like that before otherwise you wouldn't have been stupid enough to marry him"

"Why would you marry someone like that"

Etc

And then with the "why did you have another baby" comments. Usually when someone has had a baby with some arsehole but today I even saw someone question a 2nd child due to 1st child having a disability

I just don't think these comments are truly trying to be helpful. The majority are to victim blame or make someone feel guilty or stupid for what has happened.

Am I wrong?

Absolutely agree with this.

If he's a shit dad to child number one it's wishful thinking to believe his will change if you add siblings to the mix. A good way to predict how people are likely to behave in the future is to look at how they've behaved in the past.

@DrSbaitso I'm so sorry what you've been through. No kid should grow up scared and anyone who thinks the abuse is only directed to mum is being naive. Any child in a domestic home is a victim in their own right imo.

By suggesting its an unhelpful question to ask "why" was to suggest I absolve adults of responsibility or minimise the effect...but to say I don't know if asking a woman why on MN is helpful to her leaving. That post on MN is often a womans shaky step to trying to take action...she is seeking support. She has a bloke in her life telling her she's a piece of shit all day, she doesn't need us to do the same??

Also aren't the reasons so complex its pretty hard on an Internet forum.

My mum choose my angry DF because she was 21 and bought up in a loveless household herself. If she'd ever come on MN I'd hope people would have told her she was strong and resilient and could find a different future for herself, not asked her to rake up the past to further the self hatred she already had for herself.

Tbh I don't remember seeing "why did you marry him" on threads where women try to leave abusive husbands. Just on "he is useless" threads. Where it is valid q.

Let’s be honest though.

Lots of people grow up in disfunctional families, go through bullying at school and uni, where often people with slightly toxic traits are popular, possibly struggle to find someone to settle down with and then end up on here.

The ones in great relationships won’t be posting, some will ignore one or two toxic traits because their partner is “good enough” and some will see those traits as normal. There isn’t an endless pool of perfect men with great behaviour out there either.

As lots of posters have said, some men change during pregnancy. Not everyone is ready for the level of commitment needed.

I agree with this. There's a difference between a lazy husband and an abusive husband.

@SouthLondonMum22 @Cakesandbabes

That is true. Though I often find with the lazy DH posts the OP says she has asked her DH to do more and he sulks or becomes v difficult. Being chronically lazy in your own home isn't necessarily abusive but it is a sign the man is a selfish toxic individual with little respect for his partner and therefore the issues are complex and dysfunctional.

I think it’s brutal but often it’s not a bad thing to have a good long hard look at the choices you have made and think about starting to have some agency over your own life. Sometimes people need to hear the truth, “your husband is a lazy/abusive shit man, recognise this, he will not change and he doesn’t care about you.” Many of these women hold onto the belief that shit man loves them (mistake I have made myself so I have all the sympathy in the world) but sometimes you need someone to shake you and say, look at this godawful fucking mess, you don’t need this shit and don’t do it again.

You can’t change shit men but you can leave and you can make it more possible to leave by not having more kids. Women aren’t responsible for shit men’s behaviour but they can do things to make their own lives better.

Yes, and fair enough if he started doing it yeara into relationship and after kida, but they usually start well before.

It's sometimes kind of like buying cheap chocolate, moaninh it's diagusting, but keep buying it while moaning it's disgusting and occasionally give bad review feedback. You have choice to stop buying it after the first time and move onto different brand. Like women have choice to move away from useless partner at the beginning when they show themselves instead of occasional saying something hoping they change.

@Cakesandbabes but imagine if that woman felt she couldn't afford any other chocolate, that she didn't deserve any other brand, that her mum had told her that the disgusting brand was all she should expect, and all the other chocolate bars seem totally out if reach. Oh and the chocolate maker is telling her every day that tomorrow it will taste better!

I joke.. but choosing chocolate is a logical and non emotional act. It just isn't a fair comparison. Women end up with awful men because of deep seated complicated issues. It's nothing like choosing a chocolate bar.

Yes they do often have deep-seated issues (don't we all) and asking the question may prompt them to look deeper into those issues for their own long-term benefit. Skidding along the surface of consciousness may be easier, but it doesn't prompt psychological growth. "Why do I do x" is a great question to ask oneself, particularly about the big choices of life.

Isn’t this a good argument for exploring why the chocolate was and is continually bought?

I do agree with that @anythinginapinch you are right

If the person is truly asking those questions in a sincere way "why do you think you ended up with a man like your DH. I think you would benefit from some therapy or taking time for yourself to look at those issues etc"

That is VERY different to "urmm...what did you bloody expect love? What were you thinking? I would NEVER pick a guy like that"

I guess it's the intent behind the question that often seems snide and superior rather than genuinely encouraging the OP to look at herself and her life. But maybe I'm being cynical about these people...maybe they're all just trying to help.

@AtTheZoo as said I’m on the fence re this as sometimes it is snide.

BUT I have asked in the past and got a response that showed partner was seemingly depressed/stressed or a symptom of a bigger issue around respect/love/disengagement.

Or a response that shows the OP has a skewed view of a healthy relationship.

What do ppl with useless DH need to hear? What would be helpful (bar, roll eyes all men the same or ‘get a cleaner’)

Yanbu, it’s not helpful at all and it’s victim blaming. Many women who end up with abusive men have been abused their whole lives. It’s not as simple as “make better choices”, how can a woman make better choices if she is unaware there are better choices?

A lot of abusers don’t abuse straight away, it starts small and escalates over time.

Not all children are planned.

In many religions, marriage and children are not really a choice for women. They are pressured into it a young age and told from birth they must submit to men. It takes a lot of courage to leave behind the religion you grew up in, sometimes never seeing family or friends again. This happens more than people think.

Those who sit at a computer keyboard and smugly judge others for making poor choices are not very nice people and should choose not to add to the distress of others.

I think the "why did you marry him" comments are more useful for other people than OP. I've definitely read things on MN where the OP has ended up in an awful situation and made mental note where there were flags and points that could have avoided it (for my own future use).

Not linked to relationships, but the number of threads about women that live in rural locations, have multiple small children, no friends or family nearby, where there is only one bus a day and they don't drive always entirely bemuses me. Unless it's something like a fleeing domestic abuse and being put where you were put situation, I do wonder how and why those women made a continual series of choices that put them in a worse and worse situation. It's pretty hard to suggest a way out once they've got there. But maybe others can be warned about following the same path.

Absolutely this.

Those questions definitely come from a place of condescension or, at the very least, a place of ignorance.
Like they never heard of love bombing or mental health issues or attachment issues etc.
Lucky them, it didn't happen to them, bit I bet it did and now they put others down to make themselves feel better.

(Sorry, I'm bitter)

Yes, I think that's true.

This question is very useful on threads where the OP is posting about a marriage that's become stale or stuck in a rut. I'd hope in the majority of marriages, the couple did actually love each other at the start, and that the question would help them get back to that place.

And of course the advice to someone having relationship problems because their partner's changed over the years is very different to someone whose partner has stayed the same. So it's a pertinent question.

I wouldn't ask the question on a thread where the OP is distressed or seems to be a victim of abuse. But another common scenario is that the OP settled for a man she didn't love just to have children. I honestly have no sympathy whatsoever for posters in that position, and asking the question on the thread is more of a warning to others who might be reading it.

In general I have to say the MN trope of everyone hating their husbands is quite baffling to me. No one I know IRL hates their long-term partners. Annoyed by a few flaws, of course, but the point of committing to someone is that you accept those flaws (untidiness, disorganisation, whatever) because they're outweighed by the good points. And then you have to accept your own choice.

@Noicant I agree with everything said here. I was one of those women who chose badly, very badly. My closest friend in the whole world had on more than one occasion said to me "why did you marry him?" and while it really hurt and annoyed me at the time it was also the boot up the arse I needed to really go take a long hard look at myself and find out why I thought he was good enough for me. I went and got loads of therapy, sorted out childhood shit I had carried along with me and you now wouldn't recognise me for the person I have become. I'm not saying it works for everyone and some people are not ready to hear it, but I took it on board and have a lot to thank her for, for that one simple but very effective question.

Because women who do leave, more often than not end up as a single income family, or on benefits, fighting for scraps of child maintenance. Of course I understand that abuse happens across the social spectrum but there are going to be statistically more people at the lower end of the economic scale.

And yes, I am probably three decades behind you’re right. I’m old. And yet this problem also seems to be a tale as old as time. Why aren’t young women three decades ahead of me in terms of their awareness?

There's a couple of these scenarios unravelling on the current threads. Maybe someone better than me can ask the op why she's not listening to any advice.