To find the "why did you marry him" comments unhelpful

[AtTheZoo]

Every thread about some dickhead bloke has comment after comment

"Ah he can't have been like that before otherwise you wouldn't have been stupid enough to marry him"

"Why would you marry someone like that"

Etc

And then with the "why did you have another baby" comments. Usually when someone has had a baby with some arsehole but today I even saw someone question a 2nd child due to 1st child having a disability

I just don't think these comments are truly trying to be helpful. The majority are to victim blame or make someone feel guilty or stupid for what has happened.

Am I wrong?

Also some really shitty stereotypes that areshole men are all swigging beer evrry night and going to strip bars.

Some of the most "respectable" men are absolute horror shows behind closed doors

Because they often don't take personal accountability for their part in their current situation. They make poor decisions, own it, recognise it and do better instead of repeatedly making poor decisions 🤷‍♀️

I think there is a difference between "victim blaming" and getting people to own their choices. So your DH was nice as anything until you got pregnant and then he turned out to be a complete waste of space. Acknowledge that he's a complete waste of space and make a conscious decision to either stay with him and put up with him or make plans to leave. Also choose not to have children/leave your job/move to a house in the middle of nowhere with no buses when you don't drive. Yes, you can't do anything about the past, but you can realise that you made a bad choice (that you may or may not have been able to avoid even with the benefit of retrospect) and vow to make different choices in the future.

I really wish there was a way on MN to highlight to others that this is why it's important to do xyz, without it being an imposition on the OP's thread and circumstances. Being financially independent (or at least have the ability to be so) is another one.

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable question. Those of us who stayed single and lonely over years of weeding out every dickhead that hid behind a charming persona thinks ‘why on earth did you fall for it?’ or ‘why did you get yourself in that mess and then go on to have 3 kids with him?’

It’s not superiority I can tell you. It’s disappointment that arsehole men are still getting away with it.

We want the best for fellow sisters but some women seem to just to sell their souls so easily. Women are very good at being intuitive and judgemental about other women’s behaviour so why do they meet some swinging dick and trust so easily without checks and balances? Observing how he behaves in a variety of situations including pressure and anger and seeing first hand what his values are across a range of viewpoints?

I just hope we are all reading, learning and teaching our daughters their worth, and not putting up with male bullshit.

But usually those threads are “how can I get him to help?” “Why won’t he do anything” and the answer is “why do you expect him to change? Why would he change when he’s happy with the life he has?”

this is when it’s important to ask - too many woman are looking to save a shit marriage. They are hanging on to the hope he will turn into a different man. The question of “if you didn’t want to live this way, why did you marry him?” is valid. It’s important to realise you can’t change people.

All of this.

I don't like people playing the victim over situations they voluntarily created.

They’re beyond unhelpful, unless they’re also able to provide time machines. It also tells me the person asking that question has never been in an abusive relationship before and therefore seem to think they’re superior.

The only person who should be asking that question is a qualified therapist. It’s legitimate and necessary to work through why the decision was taken to stay with the fucker, to commit even further and have a child etc. But it’s not something to get into with a sanctimonious anonymous person on the internet.

Yes people seemingly “voluntarily” create situations, but you don’t know how much manipulation and abuse has gone on in their lives to lead them to that point. People aren’t perfect and they make mistakes. Most people in difficult and traumatic relationships are not “playing the victim”. You could show a bit of empathy.

I don’t think it’s helpful to question why something happened (the marriage) or why people exist (the children). How are those questions going to change anything? It doesn’t create a time machine for the poster to hop in to, does it? It changes fuck all about the past. So why beat the poster over the head about her past that she cannot change?

And no matter what, most of the time those children are very much loved and cherished and wanted despite who the father is. So it’s beyond rude to tell her that she was stupid to have them and that they pretty much shouldn’t exist. Not helpful and just really plain nasty.

How about helping her to be proactive in moving forward and giving her the confidence to realise her future could be bright if she makes changes now? Instead of pulling her through all the past decisions and making her explain herself about them?

They seem like absolutely valid and reasonable questions. If a guy is a jerk, why marry him, why have a kid with him, why have a second kid etc?

When you ask those questions @FedUpWithEverything123 are you genuinely and sincerely asking and hoping for someone to explain clearly why those things happened?

Because increasingly on mumsnet, a site I love and have enjoyed for many years, threads have more snide people on.

Without challenging the idea, the same scenario could happen again......

@AtTheZoo

And isn't the best response to this scenario some version of "You don't have to put up with this any longer, you and your kids can leave"

Rather than "what is wrong with you" or "why have you got yourself in this position"

Well yes... no one would disagree with the central contention, which is that an OP has made a bad choice, possibly several bad choices. Least of all the OP.

But when someone is in the throes of an abusive marriage, struggling to see clearly and trying to extricate themself, having a bunch of people say: "I told you so, you were stupid" is profoundly unhelpful and isn't going to motivate the person to move forward in a positive way.

it is a very genuine question. at least divorce him if you did not know why you married him. now you know at least

Most cases I have seen on here, the husband isn't abusive but he is lazy, useless and selfish. The OP is usually doing absolutely everything and is exhausted but she isn't in any danger.

I think there's a difference between those scenarios and actual abuse.

I assume posters like this have never been in love, and flooded with the nice hormones that blind us to certain aspects of a partner.

I’m peri menopausal now and the swing through the hormonal cycle is dramatic. There’s a few days where dh has the golden glow of an Adonis, and a few days where I wonder how I can stand him. But it makes me appreciate that younger women are cursed with a lovely cloud of hormones that doesn’t lend itself to sound judgements.

There’s a reason why a certain type of man gravitates towards younger women, rather than women of his own age who can spot his bullshit at a distance.

And then when you add in, that familiarity is one of the most powerful factors in feeling connected to a partner, so people recreate the problems of the relationships they experienced in childhood. We’re subconsciously drawn to men similar to our fathers. Fantastic if you were lucky in life’s lottery but a double dose of pain if you are not.

And no matter what, most of the time those children are very much loved and cherished and wanted despite who the father is.

They're not being cherished if they're living with an abuser.

We’re subconsciously drawn to men similar to our fathers.

I am very consciously drawn to men who are his polar opposite.

He really wasn't a sexy man in any respect.

@AtTheZoo those questions whilst being difficult to hear would hopefully make the person think and hold themselves accountable for their future decisions

We’re subconsciously drawn to men similar to our fathers.

My father was the same as the men these OP's complain about. Expected my mum to do everything, didn't lift a finger around the house or with us kids because that's woman's work and my mum was also a SAHM.

It did the absolute opposite for me and from as long as I could remember, I knew that if I met someone and married them, they would have to be nothing like my father which is very true regarding my husband.

Because posters underestimate abusers and the damage they do the victims and her ability to make decisions and trust her own judgement.

The advice is unhelpful and triggering - abusers belittle the victim's choices and even on a board where the person is clearly upset about their situation, other people will pile on and echo the abuser. Those posters help the abuser imo.

If they want to. Or they can think about the questions and answers. The questions are entirely valid and reasonable.

Women have agency and can make their own decisions. It isn't the 1800s, yet on here over and over Women are full of 'he's my ideal man', 'he's a great dad/ husband' etc when in the next sentence describing an utter twat.
People do not have personality changes ( barring brain injury/severe MH issues), and the warning signs get ignored as excitement, impulsiveness, and unpredictable can be attractive if you are looking for something/ someone different. I read on hear about abusers scripts, but there are more red flags than at a Chinese military display. Others can see it, but 'love blinds'.
We as a class want to be taken seriously in all aspects of life but then shout 'victim blaming' at each other when poor life decisions are pointed out. To be clear, an abuser is always to blame for their own behaviour. It doesn't excuse it ever, but taking responsibility for your life decisions is every individuals responsibility. If a partners an inadequate arse with one DC, they aren't about to become Pa/ Ma Larkin with another one.
Both men and women can be manipulative( see MIL threads). If they meet, it can be toxic from both sides.

Exactly this