To find the "why did you marry him" comments unhelpful

[AtTheZoo]

Every thread about some dickhead bloke has comment after comment

"Ah he can't have been like that before otherwise you wouldn't have been stupid enough to marry him"

"Why would you marry someone like that"

Etc

And then with the "why did you have another baby" comments. Usually when someone has had a baby with some arsehole but today I even saw someone question a 2nd child due to 1st child having a disability

I just don't think these comments are truly trying to be helpful. The majority are to victim blame or make someone feel guilty or stupid for what has happened.

Am I wrong?

Hear, hear.

It makes me cringe when I read time and time again in the 21st century that women have blindly swooned over some abusive prick and whoops look, she’s pregnant after 3 months and ‘at first he love bombed me I was completely taken in…’ Maybe give it more than 12 weeks to take a lose grip of your contraception love eh? These are high stakes after all. Lives ruined by poverty and abuse… women absolutely have their own agency, and that includes taking responsibility for who they choose to have a relationship with, and have children with.

When I read: DH has always had issues with alcohol/anger control/employment /cocaine/gambling etc.
I don't say anything but must admit I do think 'why just why would you decide to marry and have children with this person - how did you think it would end?'
I scroll on by rather than comment.

No, the abuser living with them isn’t cherishing them you are completely 100% right. The parent who is the victim most likely does though. And if that parent is reaching out for help and advice, help them. I don’t see how questioning that parent about their children’s existence is going to help.

@Screamingabdabz why mention poverty?

Its the 21st century and your understanding of abuse and control feels very 3 decades ago.

You're not cherishing your kids by forcing them to live with an abuser.

And when I was in the throes of a bad relationship, I found the comments “Why have children with him?” bloody irritating at best, and a real kick when I’m down at worst. It added nothing of value to me when I was trying to seek help and support.

He’s 3 years gone out of our lives now. And not because of comments like the above, but because of the actual helpful ones. Mostly from RL support to be honest.

Clearly you haven’t read my post properly. If a woman is reaching out and seeking help, then how is she not cherishing her children?

Because she's forcing them to live with an abuser. If she's looking to change that, great, but as long as they're being forced to live with an abuser, they're not being cherished.

I have forgiven my mother for forcing me, my brother and my sister to live with an abuser because I realise it's complicated. But there is indeed something to forgive because we were not bring cherished or looked after while that was happening.

I know it's a horrible truth to confront, but you're not cherishing your kids as long as they're being forced to live that way. And it probably would help if you have some understanding of why you are doing it.

I’m not living with an abuser, thank you. Read my post above and you will see he is 3 years gone.

Because of my past I have a lot of empathy for women and children in these situations, that’s all. Don’t tell me that my children were not cherished, it’s a very insulting thing to presume.

It is not unreasonable to ask questions along the lines of 'why did you marry him?' or 'why did you choose this man to father your children?' It is encouraging people to take responsibility for decisions they have made, rather than focusing solely on blaming the man in question.

The "you" was generic, not personal.

I was the child in that situation. I was not cherished because that is not how you cherish a child. If you are insulted by that, I'm insulted by having my experiences as a child in an abusive home belittled so that a parent can feel better about it.

But that's the reality of the situation over and over. Nobody wants to admit that they made bad decisions regarding their children at any point. The parents' self image trumps all more often than people like to acknowledge. It's one reason why women find it hard to leave. To leave would be to acknowledge what a terrible mistake they made to begin with and just how bad the situation is now for their kids.

It's complicated, I realise that. But kids aren't cherished by being forced to live with abusers. And kids aren't being prioritised when they are scolded for acknowledging that reality after they grow up because it makes the parents uncomfortable.

Where have I said I didn’t make bad decisions? I chose a feckless man to father my children, and when I was stuck with him he was emotionally and occasionally physically abusive (towards me). I made a terrible decision by choosing him and I get that.
I stuck with him longer than I should have done. But the difference between me and your mum is that I actually wanted out and I got out. I wanted that for my babies so much. I was fully aware and not in la la land hoping things would magically get better like your mum clearly was.

I’m not belittling your experience as a child. You wasn’t cherished because your mum did nothing about it.
You’ve got the wrong end of the stick about me -I was insulted because you tarred me with the same brush. My love for my children is what drove me to make their lives better, and even when I was “trapped” it’s all I ever wanted too.

They have always been very much cherished. Fiercely.

It can be a mix of perspectives

Exactly. People should be accountable, especially if they brought children into a toxic situation. That doesn't "just happen."

Respectfully, the discussion is not about you.

When you (generic) cherish someone, you protect and care for them. However much you (generic) love your kids, you aren't cherishing them as long as you're having them live in an unsafe environment. That should be your (generic) motivation to get out, so you (generic) can begin cherishing them.

I know nobody wants to hear that there was a time when they weren't cherishing their kids. But if we're truly prioritising the kids' reality over the parents' self image, it's just a hard truth. Genuine well done and huge respect for getting out. Most women don't manage it because it's really fucking hard. I understand that, which is why I've forgiven my mother.

Unfortunately, there are too many women who claim to stay "for the children" when they're really staying for their own reasons. It doesn't help that they're using the kids as the reason to stay, not least because it makes them think they're being selfless parents.

Absolutely this!

I'm unconvinced that men only show their true habits after marriage, most couples live together first so his attitude to housework will already be known.

I remember hearing an old joke on TV when I was a kid, apparently the three little words that women think sum up their wedding day: 'aisle, altar, hymn'.

It's an age old chestnut. Men marry women hoping they'll never change, and women marry men hoping they will.

My best friend thought marriage was a magic wand that turned lazy, uninvested boyfriends into responsible, dynamic husbands. It isn't. She hasn't altered him at all.

Many of the threads where people ask why did you have a child/children with someone, aren’t about abusive partners, they are usually about lazy fuckwits, men who show no interest in previous children. I think women do have to take some ownership/responsibility with having children with these men, where their personality was obvious before having the first child, or certainly obvious after the first child. If you choose to marry a lazy idiot, fine, but not fine to bring children into that relationship. Obviously, being a shit dad is down to the man, but you have responsibility for bringing a child into that relationship.
More needs to be done to make women acknowledge that responsibility, preferably before having any children, and more has to be done in raising sons so they don’t become feckless dads.

I sit on the fence, I’m not sure it’s for a random responder to point out that someone made bad choices years back.

however it‘s irritating when women complain like it wasn’t obvious that he was useless either pre-marriage, pre-DC or in his previous relationship.

I do think that once women stop settling with these men, that they will hard to find a partner without changing their ways.

Not because it’s her responsibility to effect change in men, but to protect herself & offspring from a life of misery.

Re dull men, my ex’s (teens/early 20s) were exciting impulsive men who weirdly wanted to settle with me.

Fuck that, I wanted more for myself long term.

I don’t think my DH is dull (had a fruitier life before me and also didn’t want to settle with ‘exciting’) but I’d take a dull dependable DH and DF over a volatile selfish man any day.

I hope we are modelling good relationships to our DC too.

It’s a pointless, unhelpful, unsupportive, question designed to do nothing more than make the OP feel even more shit about themselves. These women already know they’ve made a mistake/exercised poor judgement and are on here to find a way out of the mess, and they’re met with snark and nothing helpful. It’s a shitty question and doesn’t help the OP to resolve her issue.

Maybe it will make people stop and think before they keep in doing the same thing again and again

Phenomenally unhelpful and unconstructive: most of this is down to luck and they enjoy making other less fortunate women feel bad.

Except some extremely exceptional cases, I disagree finding a good man is about luck and the narrative really doesn't help. "it's mostly luck" goes back to women having no agency in their lives and just plopping from there to there unless they have good luck.

I went through few men before I found my huaband who hit the benchmark what I want in a partner. When we moved in together, I still kept our finances etc separate and we had 6 months contract only with possibility to extend. It worked for both of us. 6 months is enough for most people to show who they are at home.

There is no logical reason to be stuck with absolutely useless partner. We have options to try before buy with women having jobs so own finances, access to plethora of contraception all the knowledge an support at our fingertips....

Stopping the "hihihihi he is so adorable how he can't workout washing machine" would also help.

I see your point but it's so frustrating when women stay with or have babies with men that are awful, women have choices...

It's to make people try and take responsibility for their stupid mistakes . Ultimately a lot of stupid mistakes end up costing the tax payer and we are broke .

I don’t say it but I do think it when someone is complaining about money worries, and they are pregnant with their fifth child (planned).