To ask if parents of secondary school students are aware…

[Curtainsblue]

I’ve seen some posts about the impact of lack of teachers on primary schools and also some discussion about impact on exam classes, but I wonder if parents of KS3 students are fully aware of the situation schools are currently in.

My friend is a science teacher in an oversubscribed, high achieving comprehensive school and has told me that from September around a third of KS3 science lessons will be being taught/supervised by cover teachers.

Maths are losing curriculum time (so fewer lessons every week) in KS3 as there simply aren’t the staff to teach them. He’s said this is a common picture throughout local schools, with maths and science departments in particular being impacted- he knows of 1 school in the areas that are fully staffed in these subjects.

A colleague of his at a different school has said they are preparing for it to become common place for students to be in ‘super-cover’ classes, where if there are staff absences, students will be sitting in exam style venues in groups of 60-90 working silently and independently while being supervised by a senior member of staff.

This isn’t being communicated to parents. I spoke to a teacher at my sons school and she said she doesn’t know what’s happening there yet but they are also incredibly understaffed from September.

Are you aware of staffing levels at your children’s secondary school and how this is going to impact them?

@Anothernewnamechanges
If you’re full time then you have 28 days once you incl bank holidays and you can take those when you like. Do you know that most teaching support staff school holidays is pro rata? - therefore they have 28 days leave and UNPAID leave to make up the difference. It’s just added up annually and split into 12 payments. Oh and they also spend a decent chunk of those holidays working to get things ready for new terms and can’t ever choose when to take their time off. I’m not sure you’d appreciate that too much?!

Sadly common. I am a maths teacher, our department currently has 3 members of staff who are short term supply. Often we have to cut the classes up and over fill other rooms.

Sometimes we manage to get cover from science, history etc as a favour but then we cannot ask these teachers to actually teach content as they don’t know it.

The fact is, people do not want to become teachers anymore and teachers are leaving. Particularly in subjects like Maths and science. The quality of trainee teachers is declining in these areas, I have had three maths trainees in two years, who were unqualified to teach higher maths than year 9, and their own ability in maths meant they would fail a GCSE in the subject.

Unless there are changes, and I don’t meant to teachers pay, I mean to the education system, it won’t get better.

Not necessarily. The 11 plus does not take into account that people develop at different rates. My friend's husband failed his 12 plus and was sent to a technical school. He didn't have the dexterity or interest. Luckily for him his school became a comp. Got better qualified teachers and gave him a love of learning. He later joined a comprehensive and blossomed. He is a Vice Chair of University and still can't do DIY.

I agree 13 or 14 is far too early to make those decisions. A broad education is needed in general to make people more rounded human beings.

I did a degree in French and Business, and got Grade A* for Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Maths as well as French, Business Studies, German, Economics and Geography. I am also an experienced trainer and have FE teaching qualification. I could probably get in to teaching except….I got a 3rd class degree as I wasn’t at all well and had some trauma during my degree years and most places want a 2:1.

This.
Tony Bliar has a lot to answer for by making university the default destination.

Just want to support your thread. DH is a cover teacher, senior school, he's never seen it so bad with often more than half the staff being temporary or cover in many schools.

Exactly. It’s just silly to separate those considered academic from “everyone else,” as though “everyone else” has anything in common - and as though those who appear academic at age 10 or 11 actually have the slightest interest in things academic and wouldn’t be happier being offered more time to explore a variety of practical and creative subjects. Some people just end up being sorted into the wrong places, and others being written off altogether, because so little effort and thought is put into how to educate “everyone else,” other than to dumb down the same subjects being taught to the “academic.”

I guess we are lucky, my eldest is at secondary (year 7) and this isn't a problem at his school at all. All his classes are taught by the teachers scheduled, all experts in their subject and the same teachers right through the year. It's a very small selective school though which might have a bearing on it. Maybe it's an issue for certain schools or areas but it's not a problem for us thank goodness. The younger children at primary have more substitute teachers or TA cover when their class teachers have to go to day time meetings, which seems to happen pretty regularly. It's frustrating as they aren't challenged at primary anyway and then to spend half their time with a different or not qualified 'teacher' doing colouring in instead of learning what they should be, is annoying.

@RockyReef are you in the NE? It's one of the only areas in England not as effected by the crisis. However, if you're not seeing it now, you may start to. My DD was very lucky this year. She barely had any cover. Same science, maths and English teacher all year, but I know some of her friends in different sets weren't so lucky.

This is good to hear, but it's so sad that the bar is so low. We now applaud and envy the child who is taught by the same qualified teacher for the full academic year.

That said, my son's school have really looked after the yrs7s this year and even more so the previous year. My son started secondary with masks and distancing, no football etc. His yr6 had already been buggered up.
Then his year group weren't seen as priority when they were in year 8 and 9 (due to yr7s, 10,11 and 6th form being higher priority).

I know every year group has been impacted by covid in different ways.

Ex-teacher here.
The government has peed all over teachers and schools for years. However, schools themselves need to have some accountability. I worked in a few schools (all secondary, core subject), the toxicity in some caused me to have a mental breakdown and leave. There was no support, and it was always a 'blame game'. I wish I could say I experienced this in just one school, but I didn't - I left one school due to the toxic environment and went to another - same. Went to another, had a breakdown and left.
add to that - you have the book scrutinies, the learning walks, the mock-ofsteads... The learning walks and mocksteads were all done under the guise of 'support', of course. The micro-management was appalling.

Now - my salary is almost half what I was paid as a teacher. but - I am treated like an adult. I am held accountable for my work (and my manager would quickly pull me up if I was deemed to be slacking), but I'm trusted to do my work and meet my deadlines (which I always do, at least I have so far!). My work is acknowledged. I have my evenings to relax and switch off. I am valued now.

Teaching is not poorly paid (especially with the amount of holidays teachers get), but I'd rather have a life and be treated as a human than any wage that could be offered to me to go back into teaching.

Sadly, my case is not unique. Schools (and the government with their recruitment schemes) could put all their efforts and resources into recruiting (which is needed in the current environment), but they also need to be able to retain staff. Putting all efforts into one, and not the other, is constantly just re-sticking a new plaster over the wound.

You lost me at the KS3 stuff then I realised you meant English schools. Shame government isn’t willing to pay them a decent wage

Yes I do, but I think more for the benefit of the students. Those academically gifted could be challenged more without waiting for less academically gifted students to catch up. Whilst those on a technical scheme you could look to actively engage industry so they are helping mold those students to be better positioned for apprenticeships and create a proper career path.
This could result in more engaged students, less class disruption and possible higher retention rates for teachers.

That’s assuming there is enough stability in the job market and in the “technical” expertise required by industry to know what “technical skills” to be preparing children for - especially bearing in mind you don’t seem to think these technical skills are necessary for the more academic children.

If you paid up with local companies and tradespeople they can tell you what is required and support with developing a training programme. Not everything requires dedicated teachers.

Paired not paid

@Underminer Er yes you could teach. Unqualified teachers ( need any degree) get £30k plus. Once you have a bit of experience it’s dead easy to upgrade to a qualified teacher through a part time on the job route.
God knows why you’d want to though. It’s not so much teaching but the all the bullocks that goes with it.

@DadBodAlready This is such bs. Too many smart kids were forced into academic routes until very recently. I was one of those kids and really hated A Levels. I wasn't even invited to the vocational college events when they had assemblies at my school. I would've loved being an electrician. It's never as simple as people think and all these theories to reform the system are ridiculous. Reform takes a lot of money. Just fund the system that's already in place properly so it can actually do its job. It's really not a bad system!

I agree. The pressure to be giving outstanding lessons, for all learners, all the time is far too much on top of dealing with disrespect, awful behaviour, being a social worker, social media mediator etc etc. Far too much to expect people to do for the money they are on, it’s relentless.

My sons go to a school that is known for excellent support of staff and being a great place to work. Each job they advertise has dozens of teachers apply.

But they can't afford to fill them all now. They need to choose between paying fuel bills and staff.

This is my DDs school too. It's admin and support positions they can't fill. They've been advertising for a receptionist all year. The LA scales are peanuts. The teaching posts that are empty are empty because there's no money. The only one they haven't genuinely been able to fill is the French teacher post. Our head has been very open in terms of the struggles schools are going through though and by the sounds of things, this is quite uncommon.

Training 11-year olds to be tradespeople if they aren’t academic? Seems highly premature to me.

And if doing it at 13 or 14, who do you leave behind? Is this academic children and then everyone else? Or are we now into 3 tiers of different types of school at age 13/14?

What to do with unacademic children with no practical ability?