To ask if parents of secondary school students are aware…

[Curtainsblue]

I’ve seen some posts about the impact of lack of teachers on primary schools and also some discussion about impact on exam classes, but I wonder if parents of KS3 students are fully aware of the situation schools are currently in.

My friend is a science teacher in an oversubscribed, high achieving comprehensive school and has told me that from September around a third of KS3 science lessons will be being taught/supervised by cover teachers.

Maths are losing curriculum time (so fewer lessons every week) in KS3 as there simply aren’t the staff to teach them. He’s said this is a common picture throughout local schools, with maths and science departments in particular being impacted- he knows of 1 school in the areas that are fully staffed in these subjects.

A colleague of his at a different school has said they are preparing for it to become common place for students to be in ‘super-cover’ classes, where if there are staff absences, students will be sitting in exam style venues in groups of 60-90 working silently and independently while being supervised by a senior member of staff.

This isn’t being communicated to parents. I spoke to a teacher at my sons school and she said she doesn’t know what’s happening there yet but they are also incredibly understaffed from September.

Are you aware of staffing levels at your children’s secondary school and how this is going to impact them?

I'd like to point out to those that are considering a move to private that the independent sector is also struggling to recruit and retain teachers, especially in some of the smaller schools where staff are paid significantly less than their state school counterparts (who themselves are also underpaid!)
I know many who teach outside of their specialisms, myself included.
Independent schools are often thought of as good places to send dc with SEND and often do not have the staff to cope. Equally, class sizes are increasing and way more than 20 is becoming the norm. It's also interesting to note that many independent teachers have now joined NEU and are also campaigning for better pay. Until the recent state schools strikes, the majority of NEU strike action was taking place at the independent schools removing their staff from the Teacher Pension Scheme. All is not well across the board in UK education. It needs a major overhaul with input from those in the know; this current shower and Labour don't seem to have a clue!

Yes, it has been clear for the last two years at dd’s previously “outstanding” secondary - now graded “good”. Teachers off for months at a time on sick leave, leaving half way through GCSE years, no subject teacher at all for several subjects. Dd completely unmotivated and tells me she won’t even bother to go in for her results, isn’t interested in saying goodbye to anyone, can’t be bothered to look at sixth forms as she says will be “more of the same”. I find it hard to disagree truth be told.

@Mercymymercyme "Yeah it’s shit. I had a senior school teacher friend. HT asked her is she could speak French. She said No. he said, ‘ can you learn over the summer hols as we have no French teacher’."
I remember this same scenario on a TV documentary about a school over 10 years ago.
I think it was the German teacher, who was asked to learn French over the summer, so she could teach French, which she did, and taught them to GCSE level. Obviously in this case I mention, the teacher concerned was already a language teacher, and presumably found it easier therefore to learn another European language.

And presumably the German language teacher knew how to teach languages. Whereas my friend was in a different subject area altogether.

It's happening around here as well. The turnover rate of maths/science teachers at my children's secondary school is shocking and the KS3 classes are taking the hit primarily. I know because one of my DCs tells me about the missing staff, etc. A lot of parents haven't a clue yet.

Schools NEED to start spelling this out for their parents. IT's the only way I think they'll get parents on side of the strikes etc. They need to realise what is actually being struck for!

@FuckingHateRats

Err, let's just say no. It's more like 'you have a pulse. Do what you can with this lot for an hour. 62 of them in today. Good luck'

I’ve done a lot of supply teaching in my career (I’m disabled so a full time permanent role isn’t something I can do anymore). This has been going on since the start of my career (2012). Not only are schools struggling to fill posts but they are having huge amounts of staff on long term sick - repeatedly. Honestly some teachers would be off sick for months and then return for a week or so and then go again. Same with support staff. But instead of blaming the teachers and other staff, I think we need to look at why this is happening and it all leads back to the reasons teachers are striking.

Additionally, while I have to say supply teachers always get the more challenging behaviour, I have noticed a distinct lack of willingness in some schools to support you with that. I suspect this is because they don’t have the resources but also we are expendable. Unfortunately, this means that even when you try to properly teach and not just supervise you end up in chaos. I have been told by more than one school to “just babysit”.

I work in FE more often than not these days and we are seeing behaviour that wouldn’t be out of place in KS3 and I really think covid had an impact on those kids as they quite simply didn’t grow up. Colleagues in secondary have said the same about their year 7s etc.

Basically, education is a shit storm these days and needs some serious reform. I warn people off entering the profession because, even if I was fully healthy and able, it’s not where I’d want to be. I’ve been stalked and harassed by a student and no support was given, have had ridiculous amounts of verbal abuse and occasionally physical too.

I don’t know what the answer is but I know this can’t go on. Our kids deserve a good education

See, I actually do think that the teachers in private schools should have been removed from the pension scheme for public sector teachers. It would have hopefully acted to keep more teachers in state schools. And they are private sector employees, after all. I can't help suspecting that this change did not go ahead as the HT at Eton phoned up the then PM David Cameron and said, 'Now, Old Boy, what's thing I hear about out teachers having their pensions changed...' And it was all quietly dropped.

I also know a teacher at a private school (senior school) who says she does not mark the students homework as she does not have time. She just always give them the sort of mark she expects them to get. And I thought, 'Wow! I thought you paid for private school precisely to ensure that sort of thing didn't happen'.

I know that loads of vacancies came up in local private schools when they dropped payments into the TPS. I saw all the jobs offered and did wonder why.

@NowItsLikeSnowAtTheBeach

they definitely need to get it out to the 'hard of thinking' parents.

I have a friend I love dearly, but let's just say he's 'old school'. He loses money every time the teachers strike, so he isn't for it anyway. But he won't listen to me about why teachers are striking (thinks they get enough holidays anyway, fucking inset days- 'more time skiving' 'never fucking there' ....all the usual!!)

I've tried explaining the teacher shortage, the way they're being treated by students/parents/many HT's, amount of paper work & not enough non teaching hours. But I CANNOT get through to him.

I don't know how schools could, but they need to get people like this on board.

The worrying thing, @CafeCremeMerci is how much of that mindset there still is among some parents, and that's very obvious from these threads. Most parents are great, but a number are constantly critical and negative, their child can do no wrong. "Why don't you give him extra tuition after school? You finish at 3.40!" etc etc.
So many threads on here are written by people whose own experience of school is used as a mallet to beat all teachers.

This. 1000x.

Secondary schools have been advertising for "cover supervisors" for years.

These are actually lsa level 2. Not even HLTAs.

They used to cover occasional staff absence etc. Now they are simply cheap teachers covering all the teacher absence and gaps where teachers simply don't exist to teach the subject.

Education has been suffering for longer than since the pandemic despite the government trying to blame that for everything they've failed at

It's been suffering due to underfunding since 2010.

Did anyone not hear the announcement of "restoring funding levels to 2010". So they are restoring funding to what it was 13 years ago with lower inflation, lower bills, public services to support pupils such as social care and mental health support - oh and insisting schools give teachers a way below inflation payrise from those budgets too.

Plenty of private schools in London struggling to recruit too. South Hampstead High even set up a dual vacancy with the local state school to try to attract someone.

@TMHE Private schools rarely pay more than state schools. A lot have also opted out of the TPS making them really unattractive.

Agree with this.

Academies are just selective state schools by stealth.

@Mercymymercyme
Do you only think of the large elitist schools when someone mentions independent schools? Many independent schools ARE dropping the TPS actually. Unfortunately this is leading to strike action supported by the teaching unions and is being halted in that way, not by the headteacher calling his pal, the PM, or whatever you might think.
Many schools for SEND dc are independent and are godsend for parents who cannot find the support they need in state schools. Would you see those schools run into the ground?
I'm sorry to hear your anecdata about a private school teacher you know who doesn't mark books and 'guesses' levels. Do you think that the state system is full of perfect teachers? Neither system is. However here's my piece of anecdata. I've not met one independent or state school teacher in over 25 years of working in both systems who would have done what you describe.
None of this is right and it needs to be addressed as a whole education system issue.

Yes because my child goes to the school that I have taught at for the last 21 years ( out of 26) . Staff have been made redundant or are often not replaced once they leave. Support staff have also been reduced. We are a popular school and can't appoint Head of Maths etc. I'm so glad I have only 1 child ( starting year 9 next year ) to get through this current education system. I'm 52 ( part time since my child was born) and hanging on as long as I can. I take it year by year. It's dreadful.

The country keeps voting for a Tory government so is anyone surprised when education, health and other public services turn to shit. Eton and Winchester do not have a teacher shortage

Is this a state or independent?

Yes I know this. I'm going to be going into be a cover supervisor tomorrow. I'll get random subjects, I do not have a pgce....it's a joke! I'm grateful for the job and because I do work with kids for my normal job, I think I do a good job of keeping kids on task but let's be honest, it's glorified babysitting!
This was partly the reason I had for homeschooling my kids. When other parents asked if I missed the expertise of the teachers at the local high, I explained how much cover was in every day. They were shocked. System is definitely broken

This is why parents have to fork out for tutors

For those talking about vocational education, I teach a vocational FE subject and staff recruitment and retention is just as bad for us. Industry pays so much better.

The situation is appalling, schools are drastically understaffed but the big issue is the pressure this is causing on remaining staff.
Teachers are being asked to cover subjects they have no skills/qualifications in and/or plan work for unqualified staff to deliver.
Standards and expectations are constantly increasing - despite the number of staff decreasing and the behaviour standards drastically altering (this is exacerbated by understaffing or unqualified/inexperienced staff)
Experienced and capable staff are being given impossible targets and then no support to meet them. Pushing them towards resigning or career changing (to avoid being pushed out with “support plans”) to make room for cheaper staff - which then can’t be found!

I have 10 years experience which puts me at the top of the pay scale, I teach a core subject where there is a significant shortage of teachers. This year I have been asked to teach 3 other subjects that I am not qualified or experienced in, while also being asked to provide work in my core subject for cover teachers to use. I have worked harder this last year than ever in my career. I have complained and brought the union in to my school to ask for support and it has left me in a situation where I have been threatened with a capability process. I have left with immediate effect and my school now have 1 less core subject teacher and no one willing or able to teach 2 of the subjects I have been teaching this year.

They cannot replace me and they already have gaps in the department.

Thankfully I have a new job lined up for September and was able to choose between a number of other options.

Some suggestions of what parents can do about it.

1. write to your schools head/or governors to ask how the school is supporting staff wellbeing or how they plan to increase staff retention.
2. Put pressure on the school and maintain the pressure to find replacements for staff that have left and not been replaced
3. join the governors and regularly visit the school to find out what is actually going on.
4. Show kindness to staff doing their best despite being out in situations out of their control.
5. complain to head of subjects and senior leaders about the number of cover staff and especially if you hear about subjects specialists being used inappropriately ( but be mindful of suggesting the teacher isn’t doing a good job)

We absolutely are aware.

And unfortunately this is why I'm so pleased that my youngest has just finished their GCSEs and we're out of the school system.