To ask if parents of secondary school students are aware…

[Curtainsblue]

I’ve seen some posts about the impact of lack of teachers on primary schools and also some discussion about impact on exam classes, but I wonder if parents of KS3 students are fully aware of the situation schools are currently in.

My friend is a science teacher in an oversubscribed, high achieving comprehensive school and has told me that from September around a third of KS3 science lessons will be being taught/supervised by cover teachers.

Maths are losing curriculum time (so fewer lessons every week) in KS3 as there simply aren’t the staff to teach them. He’s said this is a common picture throughout local schools, with maths and science departments in particular being impacted- he knows of 1 school in the areas that are fully staffed in these subjects.

A colleague of his at a different school has said they are preparing for it to become common place for students to be in ‘super-cover’ classes, where if there are staff absences, students will be sitting in exam style venues in groups of 60-90 working silently and independently while being supervised by a senior member of staff.

This isn’t being communicated to parents. I spoke to a teacher at my sons school and she said she doesn’t know what’s happening there yet but they are also incredibly understaffed from September.

Are you aware of staffing levels at your children’s secondary school and how this is going to impact them?

Yes I’m an English tutor and so many of my students tell me about the amount of cover teachers/ lessons they have weekly. It’s so sad and many kids are generally really worried that they are falling behind. 😥

Yet isn't it funny how many people are quick to critcise teachers for their long holidays. Those holidays do not make up for badly behaved students, lack of support, and endless admin. If they did, we would not have the staff shortages.

Do you think moving back to a Grammar/Technical system would solve the problem of a lack of teachers? Wouldn't we need the same number of teachers?

Not if you link in with local industry who are also struggling to recruit.

No one will ever convince me teachers have a bad lot in life. Try managing with 21 days leave.

DH runs a department and half of the staff he manages are supply.

He also teaches two other subjects because there’s not a qualified teacher of that subject so he will have to do.

Children are being failed and I’m not surprised as the working conditions are a joke.

This is isnt anything new in Wales unfortunatley, has been going on for a few years now. This country is going down the pan, and thia governement dont care a damn.

In Scotland there are staff shortages only because there is no money to pay for staff. There are many many fully qualified teachers with no jobs for next year. These talented, dedicated professionals will leave the profession before they have properly begun because of a lack of permanent jobs.

I don't understand? Are the students in the technical schools not going to have teachers too? Are they going to start work at 11?

No. Filter out from 13/14 (end of year 9) into industry and learn on the job 4 days 1 day at college or production of a portfolio that an external assessor monitors and signs off. It's not exactly revolutionary but could resolve many issues in education and employment.

If you fancy having thirteen weeks’ holiday (minus inset days, of course), I hear there are a few vacancies in teaching at the moment. I’m sure you’ll be snapped up by an eager school and you can start enjoying those amazing holidays.

There are 2 secondary schools in my area. The one we are in catchment for has a huge lack of teachers and my niece had lots of supply and cover teachers during her gcse years, it wasn't good for her or her fellow student, Im not sure if ks3 was affected though.
My children luckily got into the other school. They rarely have cover teachers and there seems to be plenty of staff. Jobs were advertised earlier this school year for science and maths teachers plus a deputy head but all posts have been removed from the school website now so I'm guessing they have been filled. The only vacancies are for a PT receptionist, a TA and kitchen staff at the moment...
There is definitely a lack of teachers across the country but some schools are obviously affected more than others.

That would be quite a radical change, but I'm not going to pretend that the current system works for all children. If there's a party brave enough to suggest it, and voters go for it, fair enough. I somehow doubt that will happen though!

I'm a teacher and I'm glad when parents learn what's happening. I've been teaching since 2014 and my god has it changed in that time. The amount of cover I would do on average each week was 4 hours. Cover should only be in emergency circumstances otherwise agency staff should be used when it was a planned cover. Schools struggle to get any now though. Or they refuse to come back because of behaviour! The stress that this adds to staff is immeasurable. A full time teacher would teach 21/25 lessons a week - add in cover and any supposed "protected planning" time (supposed to be 4 hours a week) is zapped. As an English specialist I can't tell you how inadequate the 4 hours was in itself without taking any cover into account. One set of 30 books being marked takes 3-4hrs as it is, and I'd have 5 classes. I could go on about the pressures and burden to time and how that's decimating staff morale, but I'm honestly too knackered to keep repeating the same things with no hope it seems for change. I'll keep plodding along though because I love my job otherwise, but my god, it's getting so hard and with a little one now I just don't know how sustainable it is for me personally with family life. This breaks my heart though as I never saw myself leaving the profession. Please don't assume that teachers are just demanding more or moaning (I'm not saying anyone has on this thread). Please take a second to ask and engage because I don't know a single teacher whose mental health isn't massively impacted at the moment.

I think there’s a few things parents can do. You need to instil into your children to respect their teachers and behave in a way that supports learning. A lot of staff are leaving the profession due to workloads but also due to the declining behaviour in school. Children talking to teachers like something they stepped in and being told the same by their parents. In some cases there will be a supply teacher who is qualified teaching your children. These supply teachers are proper teachers and should be respected as well. Too often children believe a supply teacher isn’t a proper teacher. Yes there are also cover staff and teaching assistants covering classes as well due to budgets. You’d be surprised how many of these are actually qualified teachers but the school won’t pay the full whack and asks the agency for a cover teacher or teaching assistant instead. And many supply teachers aren’t getting enough teaching jobs so they take in the covers supervisor and teaching assistant roles to be able to pay their bills. Some qualified staff also choose these roles as they’re sick of the demands of full time teaching. But yea often they’re unqualified staff.

I’m a teacher and a member of several Facebook groups for teachers and so many are having mental health crises due to the job. Just look at the head teacher who took her own life. I’ve read some desperate posts from teachers almost at that breaking point.

I’m not saying all children and parents are to blame. There are loads of lovely respectful young people and families out there. But from some of the things my teenage daughter comes home and tells me about what goes on in school there’s no way I’d teach secondary. She’s always praised for her behaviour and is autistic so follows the rules. But I am aghast at some of the behaviour that goes on in her school. And I’m an sen teacher in a school where challenging behaviour is at another level, but where students are supported to manage that behaviour and where staff are trained and able to support students.

I respect Gen Z they give respect where it's due and call out people if it's warranted. Yes the younger ones lack finesse and tact with this but it's their world, we need to adapt to it. If you want the kids to respect you work with them don't dictate to them and wonder why they don't listen.

The people you need to get onboard are the apathetic parents who had a shit time of it at school and believe the system is still as shit as it was in their day.

I like a rebellious teen it shows they have spirit and we shouldn't knock that out of them.

I keep saying it but education needs revolutionary thinking and change from how we channel the kids right down to teaching styles. The current system doesn't work so stop flogging a dead horse!

Very true.

One thing that might help with this is if we got HEPA filters in classrooms, started being open about covid cases in schools (like we are with chicken pox for example) and stopped the insane pressure on parents to send sick/infectious children in.
Teachers are one of the professions most likely to suffer with long covid, and it's only going to get worse
https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/why-every-school-needs-worry-about-long-covid

I think house prices is a good shout as well. I teach in a very affluent area but are losing a quarter of our teaching staff this year. We can't afford the house or rental prices nearby but then with the COL crisis, staff have been looking at teaching closer to where they live to cut transport costs. We've also lost a lot of teachers to go work in international schools.

I am German and I think the further education/apprenticeship set up we have works.

But, you have education until you are 16, depending on the state you live in and the type of school, you sit certain exams. After that you can either go to 6th form for 3 years and gain your A-Level and Uni qualification, start an apprenticeship for 3 years with a practical and theoretical exam which is recogniced or go to college and gain a qualification which even allows university for certain subjects.

But it means you leave school with a fairly well-rounded education. Even 6th form still requires you to have additional lesson outside your 4 A-Level subjects.

I think leaving education with just 14 would a disaster as it leaves you far too narrow in your set-up and hardly any teen is secure in their knowledge what they want in life. When DD chose GCSE options she researched how to be a vet or any animal science related courses. She just finished Y11 now and did a 180, her chosen subjects are now history, drama and sociology with the plan to read history at uni.

Yes I was aware. No I'm not happy about it.

The way I see it, the Tories saw with online learning how to drastically cut costs, and they won't be happy until they can instigate the system for good. They are making it impossible for teachers to work and live even on basic rations with no life and no prospect of home ownership, with rents going mad and kids being able to act how they like and not be excluded.

It's a thankless task.

The last appointment I made to my physics department had a degree in theology. A few years later, when doing some suply teaching between engineering contracts, I was the only physics qualified teacher in the school. This country is not going to succeed without skilled people. People will not be skilled if they are not educated. People will not be educated without good teachers and good schools. We don't have either due to the apalling underfunding. Why is that so difficult for the government to understand? They are even proposing to steal from teachers pensions! Absolute lunacy and absolute dishonesty.

PS when I left teaching (deputy head of science in a large comprehensive) and started a new career I took a pay rise of a third for fewer hours worked per annum and much less stress. I also got to travel the world.

I agree to an extent. Lots of parents suffer actual trauma from their childhood at school and due to that have no respect for the school their child is at which is sometimes the same school they may have caused them trauma. I also agree that the current school system isn’t working for our kids. But until it actually changes we are going to lose more and more teachers because the parents won’t back up the the school regarding poor behaviour and standards. I’m not talking this kids who you can have a genuine debate with, who challenge staff when it’s warranted. I’m talking about the ones setting fires in the school toilets, drinking alcohol on the toilets, vaping on school property. The kids taking videos and photos of staff in classrooms and posting them on social media. The police have been in several times this year to talk to kids about various things - knife crime after a teen at a nearby school was stabbed out of school by another teen, or about arson as they’ve got kids in custody who burned down a local business. We don’t even live in a rough area.

I was shocked when I crossed the border and was asked to teach subjects that I hadn't studied since I was 13 or 14!
I found the same when I taught at a local private school.
I actually think we need more specialist teacher in the Primary schools.
At one point I taught in a good Middle school where they had specialist teacher. Sadly, they turned it into a Secondary school. It was a fairly good school until the Academy Trust took over.

Well, try teaching then.
To quote Monty Python 'it's a doddle'

evidently.