Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

@AdamRyan It seems to me that your principles are fine and you’re right to act on them if you feel so strongly about this. My only caveat would be that it doesn’t place your children in a terrible/unsuitable situation that you could avoid either by paying for private education or by buying into a better state school (eg by moving).

I’m sure you accept that others have different opinions, and that it is possible to compromise principles when the situation calls for it.

From a personal point of view, I went to a terrible state school and underachieved academically, DH went private and didn’t. Our DD is in a private school. For us, we believe she is getting a good education academically (she definitely benefitted from small class sizes during her primary years). She doesn’t actively participate in many of the wider opportunities on offer, which I sometimes find sad but she is her own person. She does meet a range of children but I know she is in a social bubble and I accept that.

Politically, I think all children should be offered the same chances but we don’t live in an ideal world so we have to balance the individual and the collective.

A nihilistic parent wouldn’t care at all. A private school would have no more value to them than state school.

Ultimately parents are responsible for their children, who indeed will generally be more special and valuable to them than other children. That’s hardly a controversial notion.

The vast majority of children go to state school. That’s a lot of parents already who can push for change themselves, rather than looking at others to do it for them. Banning private schools won’t solve inequality, it will just move a proportion onto the state sector, thus compounding an inequality already present. Instead of focusing on the issues present in state schools though, there’s a lot of projecting outwards onto the private school ‘other’ being held as responsible as both the cause of and solution to problems within state education.

As you point out they are 6, of course they are not aware and they are going to grow up thinking their educational experience is the norm. So when they ask you one day on one of your visits to a developing country, ' why can't they just have a school like I go to?' what do you reply, 'Well you would think darling that education should be a great equaliser but they don't have any money so unfortunately, when you are a poor child your are only entitled to a shit education'. 😏

No, you are misunderstanding, the nihilistic viewpoint is one that views the state school system as ruined and as such cynically does nothing to help remedy that just moves on with their money to pay their way out of the problem.

You suggest state school parents should do something about it but again, what about reducing disparity between the haves and have nots for the greater good? 'Many small streams' and all that.

Ultimately, we can't afford to send our DC to private school so why should my DC not get as good opportunities as DC at private school?

Because you can’t afford it. That’s the basic point. If you can’t afford something then you do need to make do with what you can afford. Eg I can’t afford Eton / Marlborough so I pay for the best private school I can afford - but I don’t expect the same services. Similarly when you’re in State School - go for the best, but don’t go in expecting private school level services. Having said that, however, UK state schools don’t even offer a decent service compared to other countries’ state schools - my eldest DD has SEN and was dismissed at age 5. Without private school we would never have seen her develop into the wonderful young lady she is now.

What, something as fundamental as education? Education is a human right, we are not talking about a new car, house or holiday.

Why shouldn't children expect to have an equal education, with equal advantages, it is 2023 not 1903, where's the progress?

I disagree that it’s the duty of parents who have opted out of the state education system to solve the issues in said sector, as if that’s something they can even do.

Your idea of the greater good is different to mine, and generally I’m extremely sceptical of ideological stances on ‘the greater good’. Have met too many true believers who believe there is no price too high to pay in the name of ‘the greater good’.

As I’ve said before in this thread and others, both my parents came from Communist countries where individual freedoms were denied in the name of egalitarianism and ‘the greater good’. Guess what? Society was still divided between the haves and the have nots, advancing oneself and one’s own at the expense of others was still endemic, and this was in fact made all the more pervasive by the fact that no one could speak on it.

Then campaign for better state schools.

Trouble is, people bend over themselves on here to try and say that state schools are so good, their dcs are doing brilliantly, they don't need private schools etc etc

It doesn't give them much leeway to admit they need improving

And they are receiving an education at state school. That others are getting a better one elsewhere (at both state and private schools) does not mean your children are being denied their right to an education.

That's not what I'm advocating though- a communist country doesn't equate to equal and fair anymore than fascism does. Striving for equality in education is not communism. The free market shouldn't be applied to education.

Why shouldn't children expect to have an equal education, with equal advantages, it is 2023 not 1903, where's the progress?
We should aspire to ensure all children can access a high quality, appropriate education.

You're never going to get equal education and equal advantages unless you start weighing in on how parents parent their children, which is dodgy ground. In the name of equal advantage are we going to stop parents reading to their babies and young children, ration access to educational days out to prevent some families doing more, have the state tale control of some families and force them to do mandatory outings, somehow monitor whether parents with knowledge or skills pass that on to their children?

I’m not saying you are arguing for communism. What I’m saying is that countries explicitly attempting to force egalitarianism and wipe out social classes and disparity, absolutely failed.

Of course people will believe that their version of fair is the one that would truly be fair, that they would succeed in achieving it where everyone else has failed, but of course they can believe that safe in the knowledge that they’ll never be in the position to implement their vision.

I’m curious - those of you saying instead of sending our kids to private school, we need to support and help to improve state schools. How do you suggest we do that? (I’m genuinely open to suggestions).

I was mainly sent to private school due to the kids I was set to go to state school with, who beat me up at private school. The school won’t do anything about it, it’s difficult to expell these kids as all that happens is that they get sent to another school. So how do we deal with this?

*Sorry above post should say ‘beat me up at primary school’! Not private school!

So private schools do have good opportunities rather than the previous stereotypes you were trying to push onto everyone?! You have spent half the thread discrediting private schools as worse than their state counterparts and how much better your children are in state.

There are inequalities in every aspect of life and we are all limited by what we can afford. The biggest difference in a child's education is parental engagement from an early age. Many don't have this from the outset for various reasons.

A basic level of education is provided by the state. Sadly the current government is not investing sufficiently but this is reason to protest. What are you doing? I may educate my children privately but I have still written to my MP. I believe it benefits society as a whole.

Provision of additional beyond what the state have is upto the parent. I had a horrific time at school and it fuelled me to work my backside off to ensure my children do not share that experience.

What do you mean, 'campaign'? You can change things via the ballot box and I know that those that despairing of the huge gap between the wealthy and the rest of us will be doing that is it is a sizeable number of people now that have nowhere near what the very few have. Families like mine where we are both in professional jobs - director in architecture and privacy consultant and we still are nowhere near moving out of housing that was originally built for 1-2 people. Our neighbours who are young and paying lots of rent for a house where the retired Dentist Landlord is paying for his grandchildren's private school fees with the rent. It is absurd the disparities. We are the lucky ones but no you'd rather live in a society where these disparities are acceptable? Really?

Also State education in the UK isn’t free. All but the most poor pay something towards it. When you add up everything parents need to pay for - eg books, uniform, stationary, trips, computers, donations - you’re often looking at 1-2k a year to do state school ‘properly’. Why not just call Academies what they really are - cheap private schools - and allow them to set some kind of nominal fee too.

Private schools have decent amenities the ethos on the other hand is not nice.

I worked my backside off as well as did DH, are you saying that you worked for your good fortune?

£1-2k what are you on about. I buy my DC's pencils/pens from a discount shop. I have bought uniform in year 7 about £90 in total but I could get second hand if I wanted and I my DS who left this year has had the same tips since year 9. New trousers and shoes but again not 1-2k? Where are these figures from? No all state schools are Academies.

Yes I absolutely worked for it. There are also other factors at play which I benefited from such as parents who were wholly invested in my education (despite not being able to afford private schooling), going to university when tuition fees were low, being healthy, being able to live with my parents in my early career allowing me to save for a house deposit, getting on the ladder before prices rocketed to name a few.

By saying I worked for it is absolutely not saying other people haven't worked hard. Through my work, I see more than most how much a difficult childhood perpetuates into adulthood and predisposes to so many other challenges. But that does not take away from the fact that I had it tough through school and had to overcome a lot to get the grades for med school and get to where I am.

🤣

You are thinking in extremes but I am simply advocating the free market is not a good way to allocate educational provision for children. That has zero to do with communism, it is about being civilised.

But we live in a free market economy.