Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

Oh and lots of lessons on sleep, mood, changing bodies, being kind, and fairly laid back academically.

@AdamRyan have a read of this To ask if parents of secondary school students are aware… http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4840016-to-ask-if-parents-of-secondary-school-students-are-aware

I'm not extrapolating from knowing of one school as my nice and nephews got to three different private schools, many children at year 7 have moved to private where we live. I went to private school myself, it was an all girls school something I'd never choose for DD. DD has loads of friends that are boys and girls, my DS who is 16 is similar and can hang out with girls can chat with them, my nephew who is the same age at an all boys school struggles as do the girls he hangs out with. It doesn't reflect uni or working life it is bizarre.

The private schools by there very nature do want to fail as it is a business at the end of the day. They are going to push out those who don't confirm to their business model.

My parents chose to send me to a miserable (although somehow high ranking, top 10) local state school. I did ok, made the best of it but it was quite grim and looking back offered such limited opportunities. It’s taken me years to unpick some of the grim stuff, lack of confidence, lack of broad education and awareness. I feel that I am where I am in spite of my education.

They had the money for private but apparently though state school was ‘fine’ as they weren’t ‘snobs and tories’ (in reality I think they wanted the money for themselves, their pensions and their hobbies such as yachts, which is fair enough as it’s their cash but it stung that I was struggling and they didn’t think it mattered)

Honestly, I judge them for this, that their light touch principles / preference to not spend the money meant I suffered. It’s the reason that my children go to a wonderful private school and that I’d sacrifice many things to send them there if I had to.

So your sample size has increased from one to a couple more. You are still extrapolating and generalising.

As a psychiatrist, I have worked with countless teenagers with eating disorders. I can categorically state that I have not treated more from private schools than state. They are sadly prevalent in both sectors and causes are multi-factorial.

Likewise, your statement of not knowing to socialise with the opposite sex is utter nonsense. The majority of boys in a single sex school are exposed to girls in other social settings and have no issues communicating with them. From childhood and through work, I know many people who have been educated at single sex schools (some state, some private); none of them have any issues communicating specifically with the opposite sex. They are mostly in professional well-paid jobs which involve dealing with a multitude of people and single-sex education has not held them back. From those who have trouble with communication, it tends to extend to general issues with all people, not just the opposite sex.

You are comparing at most a handful of individuals at different schools, not an entire sector. As many PP keep on repeating, selecting between state and private is an individual choice based on what you have access to

Private schools don't really allow for self expression and that includes being a little bit tubby. You say there are lessons on this and lessons on that. I know there is this purposeful wellbeing agenda as I am being advised on healthy eating from DDs 12 year old friend as is DD! It isn't very authentic though is it. My DS's friend who receives FSM is in a band and they sold out their gig on Friday night. They have done all this themselves and they probably have some material to write about. We are a typical middleclass family, DH Architect and I'm Privacy IT at the end of the day this is DS's best friend, his friend who is in receipt of school meals has an older brother at Oxford. They share a bedroom in a tiny house. How the hell would you have the variety of friendships socially if you go to private school - you just wouldn't. I want my DD to do her fashion designs, her sewing in the evening, her piano and song writing because she wants to not because I have set this up. She pursues things herself in that time after school whereas her friends home at dinner time then it is straight to bed as she has to get up early for a 6.45am school bus the next day to pollute the earth by travelling out of county to a different school!

I have read it. It's awful.
Unfortunately I think both NHS and education are being intentionally run down by the Tories so as to "encourage" people to go private and shrink the state. To me that means widening social inequality and causing severe problems for those who have no choice but to use public services.

The root cause of this is the government and I'm not voting for them next time or playing into their agenda by opting out of public services. Its a disgrace.

You may have treated aneroxic children but I am not referencing that extreme disordered eating, I'm noting the obsession with perfection which is to do with private school mentality. Competitive under eating does not in any way lead to treatment, it is a way of life.

Equally, it is an observation that is noticeable with children who are in single sex education and you may not notice as you were educated in this way yourself but people who are educated at state school absolutely do know the professional colleagues that didn't get to be with men/women on a full time basis until they arrived at uni.

I think it is a massive waste of money as well as there are many people recruiting now in the professions that used to be dominated by the private school alumni but now this is changing, privilege isn't very fashionable. A poster on another thread talked about the 'real world' in finance being the privately educated world but I don't know if that is wholly accurate even. My SIL works in that world in the city and is completely state school educated.

If you go to private school you are more likely to vote Conservative is the latest research so the problems are self-perpetuating!

Once again, ignorance at its finest.

I went to a mixed sex state school and am a medic. I can categorically state that in the overwhelming majority of cases, I would not be able to tell which of my colleagues were educated in a single sex environment or not prior to university.

You continually keep talking and generalising from your tiny little sample size - 'private schools do not allow for self expression' 'perfection is to do with private school mentality'. You seem to think this applies to all private schools up and down the country and your wonderful state experience applies to all states. Newsflash: It doesnt!!! There are good and bad in each sector.

DH is state educated and in the financial sector - he has been outnumbered by privately educated individuals from the day he started his first job. It doesn't bother him as he can communicate with them all and feels comfortable in the environment but as you admitted, you clearly don't know the reality!

I'm a GP and all teenagers consulting for mental health, disordered eating and behavioural issues are children that come from state school, but that's because most children go to state school! I wouldn't make a generalisation that one has more problems than the other. I think that there are problematic schools period. Could be state or private. In terms of diverse friends, not sure about that argument. My DD goes to private, and had a sleepover with her two besties this weekend : a Syrian refugee and another friend who lives in a council house. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think it's more common for secondary aged kids to have friends outside school. Ultimately, IF you have the choice, choose the school that's best for your DC, be it state or private.

tiktok and fashion all over the shop here in private and state. Lots of videos my niece and her friends have made in the classroom and toilets of her top london private school, all over Tiktok. Surely depends on the crowd they're in.

@Goldenbear

You are using incredibly simplistic stereotypes drawn from a tiny sample size with anecdata which makes your bias obvious.

Everyone is familiar with these tropes:

• you are more likely to get stabbed at state school
• private schools encourage eating disorders
• single sex education hampers social development

These tropes have been in circulation for decades (they have not changed since I was at secondary school in the 80s). They are unscientific, unhelpful and add nothing to the debate.

Of course it’s possible to find isolated instances where these things are true but your observations are meaningless if applied only in these limited situations.

I also went to private school, and your experience wasn’t mine at all. My school was brilliant, and I received a lot of pastoral support and encouragement. Indeed, the school prided itself on doing that. I went in as a student from another country, unfamiliar with British schools, and didn’t speak English as my first or even second language. I wasn’t the only one in that position either tbh, and we all flourished in the environment we were in.

Of those I know that were privately educated, the general consensus is that it was a positive experience. Of course I have met people that had a bad time in their private school, but then I’ve also met plenty that had the same at their state school.

That’s quite an interesting point about impact of going to a single-sex school, and it not being reflective of uni or worklife. Not I agree with it tbh.

Firstly, there are 2 single-sex state schools in my area. Not restricted to private or grammar.

At uni I was put in halls of residence with all girls, I did a MFL degree which had by far the majority female students. I got a job as a bra fitter, majority femalecolleagues and customers. My best friend also became a midwife - again, mostly women. Yet we are both fine speaking to men and are happily married with sons. All fine. I’m really pleased I went to an all-girls school.

So you are arguing that I am wrong on these things because your anecdata says otherwise 😂

My goodness my mind is blown at how insightful you are on Finance in the City being dominated by ex private school pupils- except that it isn't really as I know that is the case, my argument is that is changing. Traditional professions that used to be full of ex- private school pupils, Partners in City Law firms, City Bankers, London practice Architecture are not so much now. I should know I'm married to one and the sister of another. It is pure anecdata but so is your experience. I also went to a private school until I was 12 and know the atmosphere they encourage.

How do private schools allow for self-expression by their very nature they need to produce results that attract people to pay thousands of pounds for an education. If you lose the control, how do you get the results, they can't afford to have people who fail on their books.

So short sighted.

We have the option to buy a small 3 bed terrace for £700,000 to get our DD in to one of the best state schools in the country.... or buy a £400,000 4 bed detached with land in a nice area with a shit state school and pay £250,000 for 7 years of private school for 2 children.

You pay in house prices for the great state schools.

I mentioned my own awful school earlier in the thread. Hopefully this won't out me (😜) but this is a news article from the time about my school, I was a few months away from sitting my GCSEs at this point: Head on sick leave after inspection | Tes Magazine

I joined it when it was an all-girls school (state run) and very highly thought of. As the article alludes, the parents and teachers of the girls school fought for the merger not to go ahead, but the result was one of the worst schools in the country.

I will never put my children through what I had to go through at that school and if the best available option is private, so be it.

I have said the opposite the state school isn't full of stabbings on a daily basis, I was using this thing called, 'irony'.

What research are you referencing then to advocate for the societal benefits of private education?

This thread is a joke as people who send their children to private school are justifying the social segregation as being a reaction to the state provisions in their area, like they are somehow 'victims' whereas the reality is the real victims are ones who have no choice. Not being bothered about other children's prospects in society or your community, resigning yourself to, 'well it is bad luck that the system is fucked but rather than try and change that we'll go private'. If that isn't the definition of Nihilism what is?

That your children think everyone is like them, with no money worries and the security of wealth to fall back on is IMO a deprivation of sorts as you are denying them the development of empathy.

We don't as we have the Lottery system of school allocation, there is no catchment area.

So where does that leave everyone else, if everyone pays for an education where does that leave those who can't - do you really think that is going to be a good outcome. Truly Dickensian some of these views on here.

The difference is I am not saying that my anecdata is representative of an entire population. I am simply using it to prove that your are pulling up stereotypes with yours

If you can't see that your exposure to a couple of children in single sex schools who seemingly struggle to communicate with the opposite sex is not reflective of the whole population (particularly as single sex exists in both private and state sector where I am), you demonstrate your ignorance perfectly.

Finance in the city was dominated by private school pupils at the time my husband started his graduate role and his peers (at CFO/director level) still tend to be from this background. It is very likely those from state sector are now taking up more roles and if that is the case, it is fantastic. Jobs should go to the best candidate irrespective of which school they went to.

How do private schools allow for self-expression by their very nature they need to produce results that attract people to pay thousands of pounds for an education. If you lose the control, how do you get the results, they can't afford to have people who fail on their books.
Once again, ignorance! One of the things many parents (myself included) are willing to pay for is a private school that deviates from the government prescribed curriculum and allows for self-expression. Maybe take a look outside your tiny little sample and consider why other parents may pay for education. I don't judge the school purely by the grades but by the fact that they are producing a happy, rounded individual. One thing that is increasingly clear today is those with the best grades are not necessarily those that go on to achieve the best - resilience, work ethic, confidence are far more important.

So where does that leave everyone else, if everyone pays for an education where does that leave those who can't - do you really think that is going to be a good outcome. Truly Dickensian some of these views on here.
I'm in favour of a total overhaul of state education, change in the way we offer technical education, change in how we examine and at what age, with proper funding and properly resourced allied public services to support those who need additional support so that schools can focus on teaching instead of papering over the cracks from decades of failing services.

We can't move into catchment of a great state school.
We don't have the funds for private education.

I understand most parents are all doing their best in a difficult situation, some being more fortunate to have options that others don't.

I just don't buy the idea that people with a good state option, a willingness and ability to top up with extras, and the resources to go private should they really need to can claim some sort of moral high ground where they're acting on nothing more than principle when if their real options were more like what some posters outlined they'd probably do what was required to look after their children's wellbeing and education.

Make whatever decisions are right for your child in a flawed system, but spare the moral high ground nonsense.

Great Post

That your children think everyone is like them, with no money worries and the security of wealth to fall back on is IMO a deprivation of sorts as you are denying them the development of empathy.

😂 My 'deprived' 6 year old is fully aware that they are extremely fortunate to attend a school with the facilities they have access to. They have been visiting our home country (developing) since they were a baby and continue to spend time with us in their holidays when we volunteer at various schools and camps for those with much less than we do. They have empathy but I will happily pay private fees for them to enjoy their school experience rather than endure it and not be exposed to the racism I encountered which left me on the verge of suicide as a teenager