Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

OP do what you want and what suits your family best, but don’t preach and judge others.

Having any real choice with regards to how and where you educate your children is inherently privileged. If you have that choice, be grateful. Most people don’t.

What equality? Okay, it's 2023 where I have had to wait a year for four speech therapy sessions for DS. He is now on another list that will likely take a year to go down. Other children at my his state nursery are also on the same list awaiting an appointment. You know what the therapist said? She said, 'if you can, find a private therapist because it is SO important for adequate intervention as soon as possible... the list is too long, I am so sorry.'

So we now pay hundreds per month to access a private therapist (who is bloody brilliant and the sessions are miles ahead of the NHS session!). I've no regrets.

My point is, from even before children start school, the system is failing children who cannot afford the private speech therapists, or whatever critical educational need not adequately being met.You can imagine the challenges to education this poses for any child who cannot communicate sufficiently by the time they enter reception.

No, I’m saying that even the extremes didn’t manage it, despite explicitly setting out to. So why do you think your approach would be the one to achieve it? There currently already is massive disparity in the state sector, independent of private schools. How about focusing on getting ones own house in order before looking outwards?

There are also people that think the state sector shouldn’t be the only option available to people, and that it would be distinctly uncivilised to strip basic freedoms to enable a total state takeover of a sector, no matter how noble the intentions.

Well that's precisely my point, we shouldn't be apathetic about it, we should care that the ability to transcend an impoverished or disadvantaged background via education is no longer a possibility.

The fact is the free market works for other aspects of life where there is finite resources but it does not work for education.

Well no, that isn’t a fact. It’s an opinion. You can also point to the state sector and say state governance doesn’t work either.

So you have 7 % of the population being educated via private school, 93% via state school but the 7% in the Judiciary, in government, in business, end up running the country, you can say that justifying that level of inequality for the sake of liberty of choice is the right way forward but personally I think there is a huge problem with the two tier system that arises from that. Social mobility does not happen under those conditions. I would imagine many advocates on this thread who can afford private school are not the Landed Gentry, in which case they are the products of social mobility and transcending one's circumstances or their parents, grandparents did. If back in the day nobody objected to these principles then, many people who use private school today wouldn't even be in that position to do so - ironic don't you think.

Well yes, like my parents: a product of social mobility under capitalism, who also availed themselves of the freedom to decide where they sent their children to be educated.

I’m not sure why you think that banning private schools would have the discernible impact on equality as you seem to imagine it will. Those ‘elite’ positions are as a general rule inhabited by the middle and upper middle classes. They would still be inhabited by the middle and upper middle classes even if private education wasn’t available in the UK.

We fundamentally disagree, anyway, and I’m not inclined to argue around in circles. I highly doubt that private schooling is going anywhere in the UK, ultimately.

Did anyone say we should ban private schools? Or is that just a bit of hyperbole?

There are posters, such as the one I was replying to, that object to them existing, which does indeed suggest a desire to do away with them.

Hyperbole. I suspect this will be far less of an issue if private schools lose their charitable status and have to start levying VAT.

Urgh just do what you what - really who cares. You do what you think is best for your child - we don’t get to choose for you. Why do you need people to tell you that you are not being unreasonable even tho you are super rich and can afford it but don’t want to?

From a personal point of view, I went to a terrible state school and underachieved academically
And what has been the impact to you?
One of the things I find interesting amongst my peers at work (senior management) is some have no qualifications, working class background, worked their way up, some didn't go to uni and did management trainee schemes, some have PhDs, some have private education, some are ex military and trained when they left the forces, some are working class background....

Education doesn't seem to have made a huge difference in my industry (tech). Yet in some industries private educated people dominate (banking, law, media, politics). So I think that must be to do with networking/alumi schemes.

It's interesting to observe how defensive posters are about privately educating- if you didn't feel you were paying for an unfair advantage, you wouldn't be defensive.

Labour can’t simply strip private schools of charitable status. It’s an easy thing to pledge, and another thing entirely to do.

Oh ok. So just a spot of mind reading/putting words in people's mouths then.

It's possible to disagree with the principles behind private education and still respect parents rights to choose that for their family you know.

Why can’t they? I think you’ll find that with a big enough majority any government can make any taxation law they choose.

“It's interesting to observe how defensive posters are about privately educating- if you didn't feel you were paying for an unfair advantage, you wouldn't be defensive.”

That reads more like wishful thinking tbh, and seeing what you want to. When people perceive attack they generally do become defensive. It doesn’t mean that they’re harbouring a guilty conscience or feel as if they’ve done something wrong.

I don't think so. I've followed the thread, I can see from the voting that many people don't agree you should go private if you can afford it. Yet those people aren't posting, whereas the "everyone goes private if they can, if you don't you are lying/sacrificing your children to a purity spiral/paying over the odds for catchment/private tutoring" posters are out in force, misquoting people and generally being quite rude.

I think you are being naive. They cannot do this as it would mean all educational charities could be stripped of their status.

The hysteria over private schools reminds me a bit of Brexit and the way people really believed by leaving the EU we'd have loads more money to spend on our own country.

Well OP I'm sure if you live in the catchment area of an excellent state school you'll never regret your choice.

Because that’s down to the charity commission, the same charity commission that private schools won against in court in regards to their charitable status and public benefit.

"although it is necessary that there must be more than a de minimis or token benefit for the poor, once that low threshold is reached, what the trustees [of a private school] decide to do in the running of the school is a matter for them, subject to acting within the range within which trustees can properly act.'"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/575bd0a740f0b66bda00000e/The_Independent_Schools_Council_v_The_Charity_Commission_for_England___Wales_and_The_National_Council_for_Voluntary_Organisation__2__HM_Antorney_General_v_The_Charity_Com_and_The_ISC.pdf

The government cannot simply do what they want, no, they have to act within the framework of the law too. They can try of course, assuming there is in fact the political will to do so, and spend years, as well as significant amounts of money, in court where they are by no means guaranteed to succeed.

I think you are being naive. They cannot do this as it would mean all educational charities could be stripped of their status.

I don’t think I’m the one being naive. There are lots of very bright lawyers in the Labour Party perfectly capable of writing targeted legislation.

Lol, no. The poster in question does not agree with the existence of private education, and doesn’t think it should be an available option. Feel free to do a search and see for yourself.

Well, we'll see shall we.

State School all the way. Kids learn so much more than academic work in either system, but as someone who sees young people at 18+ in Higher Education, the most well-rounded are almost all State School products. Yes, the excellent Private Schools have great programmes for well-rounded young people, but the mediocre ones are simply hot-housing for Uni entry.
Bright young people will find their options either way. But remember, contextualised admissions for Uni exist, and schooling is taken into account....

PS - from experience, the best well-rounded HE students we get have largely done the International Baccalaureate, whether it's at a State or Private School....