Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101

Some children really are just appalling. Trauma is not an excuse for certain behaviours. There are many kids in care with truly awful backgrounds and they are some of the nicest kids I’ve ever met. Likewise, some kids from affluent backgrounds are arseholes just like their arrogant and entitled parents. They have a massive shock coming to them in the real world at which point I suspect they’ll pull the mental health card. I don’t even care if that’s not PC.

Same with my experiences of primary in the 80's

@SpringIntoChaos I'm early years and I agree. No matter what I report at the end of the day about behaviour, it's always "ah poor darling are you tired? Let's have a hug and some chocolate." They've never heard the word no.

My cousin's daughter is in YR7 of supposedly the best of 4 state schools covering a nice middle sized town. My DS left 10 years ago and it was OK then.
She absolutely hates using the toilets because boys come in and she can hear pupils having sex in the cubicles.Not what I was expecting her to say when she started telling me.
She is getting hit and bullied on a daily basis but she has started to toughen up now after a year of it.
She was such a sweet little thing and went to primary in a little village school so secondary was a massive shock. She's no longer a sweet little thing. She's now street wise and hard faced.
What a massive disservice left wing, namby pamby politics have done to our children.

A great deal of respect @HereComesMaleficent for admitting that your son can be difficult in class, very few parents will acknowledge such a thing and it makes it so hard for the rest of the class.

Totally agree @Freyawiththeblondehair , there is a lot of showing off to the opposite sex.

Very much agree @Blackbyrd , my son has been bitten by some boy in the class that blames everything on 'mental health', he throws it around at every opportunity and the Teacher has to make so many allowances for a nine year old. We have been at the school for one month, and we may not see it through until the end of term with the number of jackasses in the class.

@Fizzadora

Hmm, I’m not sure I believe students are having sex at school (and I’ve seen some shit in my time). That would be a huge safeguarding issue. Possibly some sex noises as a joke, as this is depressingly common, particularly with the rise in teen boys watching porn.

This thread terrifies me! I have a child going into reception in September. Can I ask, have any teachers noticed this age group behaving worse since covid? My child wasn't affected by the lockdowns - we locked down when he was 14 months old and by age 2 he was back at nursery. I was assuming / HOPING that the worst behaviour would have been in older year groups who had been badly hit by lockdown, and as children started joining the school in the younger years that it would start filtering out again....?!

Both. And a curriculum unfit for purpose.

In the 16 years I've been teaching behaviour is significantly worse for a number of reasons including:

1. Children's overuse of technology- nursery children can't play or use their imagination, they struggle to communicate because their speech and language skills are affected by too much device time so they communicate physically through frustration, they can't sit and pay attention for more than a few minutes, etc.
2. Social media- linked to number 1, older children all over social media from year 3, even below (even though we badger parents about minimum ages for tiktok, etc). Causes bullying, arguments, eating disorders, gender and body dismorphia, the list goes on.
3. Parents not supporting the school with behaviour issues. You inform them of poor behaviour and they make excuses or tell you you're wrong or mouth off. The amount of hours a week we waste looking at cctv to work out who hit who first, where it happened, just so we can show parents irrevocable proof their little fucker deserves the sanction meted out. The children are witness to the parents' lack of respect and teamwork with the school, which emboldens them to continue to behave badly.
4. Parents who ignore the school rules and parental agreement THEY signed when they sent their child/ren to us. 'They need their phone they used sneakily!/they should be able to wear what they want!' and much more.

There's probably more I've forgotten, I'm sure someone else can add to this.

Dr Jessica Taylor is a voice of reason here too. Too many educational professionals tip toe around mental health believing trauma based practice allows certain pupils to be abusive. This is simply not the case. That’s a choice and has nothing to do with an individual’s mental health.

@PollyPeep

My sister teaches reception and is leaving at the end of this academic year. Too many children with SEN, too many kids with MH issues and too many who just simply cannot concentrate etc etc etc. And I’m talking about 4 and 5 year olds here.

@PollyPeep

And yes issues progressively worse since Covid but I don’t think everything can be blamed on that.

Ds is year 9 at a small independent, he’s getting increasingly miserable and frustrated by the behaviour of a small hardcore group of boys in his year. They are basically becoming feral! I have emailed today and requested a phone call from the deputy head.

Yes too many kids in infants I a class and too much pressure for a Curriculum that is too pressured for results.

If we look to high acheiving countries they are play based for longer and not straight jacketed into a narrow curriculum.

Wr have governments that medle with education and teaching is in the worst recruitment /retention crisis I've known.

Look at any of Nobelgiraffes threads. It's not as if teachers aren't shouting about it...

You clearly have little to no understanding of child development or desire to improve the situation so it's best you don't work in education

But things aren't getting better, they're clearly getting worse and worse, so as much as you sneer at other posters it's not like they're coming across as wrong?

As I keep saying, the system is broken and unless teachers and parents stand up and demand change nothing will improve. @UsernameAlreadyTaken101 Teachers have been demanding change for years. All that happens is that the government ignores us and the general public say we're moaning and if we don't like teaching why don't we leave. Well, we are leaving...

My dd is 13 and her class had been awful since the first day of primary school! Almost every teacher they’ve ever had has left and there have been stories of teachers crying in class etc it’s been the same few kids causing trouble for years an and now even worse at secondary school.

While I do believe that these problems are linked to wider social issues I don’t think it’s fair that other children in the class are the ones paying the price. My dd spent 7 years of primary school being sat next to the most disruptive of children because she is quiet and well behaved and now because she isn’t particularly academic (probably not helped by lack of input from primary school teachers who were busy trying to deal with disruptive kids) she will spend the rest of secondary school grouped with the same children. She is autistic and finds it particularly difficult being around noise and chaos but none of that matters as long as certain children are able to feel included in class. The only saving grace for her at the moment is that some of the children have just stopped staying in class and just leave whenever they feel like it so at least the rest of the kids get a break!

At dds school the older years are fine it's the current year 7&8 pupils whose behaviour is atrocious.
It seems that many parents have forgotten that it wasn't the teachers who closed the schools, it was the government who was in charge of those decisions during COVID so any behaviour issues, any long unauthorised absences, all punctuality issues are thrown back in the face of teachers. ' oh it was ok to close schools when you wanted so why do I have to send them in when I want to take them out!' kind of comments.
Kids see their parents disrespecting teachers and think they don't need to respect them either.

Proper funding for extra class support. When I started there was a full time ta in each class. Now there's barely 1 per year group, due to funding- the few we have spend most of their time fulfilling SEN requirements.
Measures to exclude pupils quicker and easier. SLT have their hands tied. Even excluding for 1 day requires lots of paperwork and hassle let alone permanent exclusion.

This is disgraceful.

Teachers should have much more power to suspend and exclude or whatever sanction is needed. That is not acceptable for you, or other children, or lets me honest that child who has zero clue how to behave in society.

Soon to be ex teacher of 13 years here. Behaviour is absolutely the worst I have ever seen it. I work in a highly respected state school and until 2 years ago, the worst that had ever happened to me was I was told to “f* off” by a year 11 who then came and apologised after school after taking himself to the headteacher straight after saying it.
Last year, a pupil threw something at my 8 month pregnant stomach (very much on purpose). There were no sanctions. I don’t want to be a part of an organisation that sends the message that behaviour is okay. I also feel sorry for all pupils who are trying to learn in this environment and pray that things have improved considerably by the time my kids get there or I can somehow
afford private!

Yes in my experience behaviour is out of control in some schools. The violent, disruptive children can remain in class to do what they like - throwing things, punching, shouting, trying to break fingers, etc. No consequences. Day after day, doing whatever the fuck they want.
I had to move my child from one such school.

i suspect it’s down to a mix of things. Possibly academic curriculum pressures being slowly ramped up over a number of years so that provisions are a poor fit for many children(square peg round hole), also undiagnosed or unsupported SEN, disruptive behaviours to distract from academic difficulties, inadequate mental health provision for children, staff and parents

I withdrew my year 8 child and now home educate him. He was so frustrated and sick of pupils behaving badly and staff shouting, trying to control them. I knew I could provide a warmer, more interesting child centred education.

I am absolutely not sneering at anyone. I'm actually horrified at the attitudes of people towards children, most of whom I assume are parents themselves and some claiming to work in education. If things are getting 'worse' it's because of changes to law and funding. Those things can easily be reversed with campaigning for change and voting for people who value education and listen to experts in the field.
I'm a teacher. I'm in the thick of it every day. I know how bloody difficult it is and I've wanted to walk away a thousand times but education is my passion and I don't want to give it up.
Instead of moaning on mumsnet people need to speak up and act out. Parents who shout the loudest get listened to. Parents who advocate for their children and don't take no for an answer get listened to. Teachers saying we've complained before and nobody listens is getting you nowhere. Don't just lie down and take it. Become actively involved in your union. Complain to your management until they are sick of you. They might say their hands are tied but they need to speak up as much as the classroom teachers do.
As for the parents here demonising their children's classmates...be a better role model. Show some understanding and compassion towards the kids with extreme behavior as there is ALWAYS a reason behind that and be proud (even smug) that yours aren't the entitled little shits you describe.