Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

@BlueAndGreen89 I heard the boys talking about gardening at the school gates at the end of the day once, so I asked DD "ooh did you do gardening today?"
Her reply, something like:
"No, they got sent out of lesson to the Mr (head teacher) and spent the lesson setting up the school garden with him"

You actually can't make this up😒

Yes behaviour is horrendous and there's almost nothing that can be done about it.

Takes a lot for a child to be excluded, especially permanently. And there isn't much choice where they go next. It is a vicious cycle.

No funding to put in resources for children who need help

@toomuchlaundry frustrating though, I understand you can't just exclude children but I just feel for the children who want to learn but can't because of constant shouting, pencils being thrown across the class, crawling on tables, tapping rulers and breaking them on tables etc.

The children who are kicking off in class are doing so because they are not getting the support they need. This is down to severe cuts in support and resources and children placed in mainstream education that cannot meet their needs.

Parents should be making waves about this not the lack of "discipline"!

At least one school in Aberdeen has police on site, how the hell did it come to this?. I'm not an snp fan, they're useless and corrupt.

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101 yes I agree. I don't think it's teachers fault either. 1000 percent resouring. I think if they had a TA it'd be better for children and teacher but because their upper KS2 they don't "need" a TA.
So DD's teacher is alone with 29 children whereby 8 of them are extremely disruptive - sometimes even kicking doors and running out of class but what is the teacher to do when she's alone with them?

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101 you are ofcourse correct but there is also an element of students purposefully misbehaving. I walked up the stairs behind some students having a full blown conversation over whether they were going to behave or not and what they were intending to do to a new colleague to wind them up.

I’ve written this on so many threads, but I’ll say it again here: most people would be shocked at the behaviour in schools, especially secondaries.

I’m lucky to work at a great international school now (European continent, not UK) and don’t have any major issues with behaviour. But when I worked in the UK, it was appalling. State and Catholic Secondaries in my country are also pretty bad.

I’m seriously seriously considering homeschooling my DC for secondary.

I have been a secondary school teacher for 20 years and behaviour is at an all time low. Defiance, disruption and rudeness are the norm in school. SLT just keep deflecting the issues back to classroom teachers. If the kids are not worried about going to SLT what hope do classroom teachers have? Don't even get me started on the parents and the belief that their little angels can do no wrong!

Yes, behaviour has deteriorated rapidly over the last ten years or so, but since Covid, it’s been dreadful even in schools that previously didn’t have significant issues.
Low level disruption is very wearing and wastes so much time as it’s continuous. Everything from challenging the teacher, shouting out, wandering round the classroom, repeating other people’s words, throwing stuff, poking, prodding, misplacing other children’s kit…
The expectations of what a learning environment should be, and the balance of power has been completely skewed to the loudest, most confident and most disruptive children being the dominant presence. And everyone loses out, including them in the long run.

The children who are kicking off in class are doing so because they are not getting the support they need.

In a small number of cases, possibly. I taught in Primary schools for 32:years (now retired) and can assure you that most bad behaviour is caused by the children being entitled little shits.

Another teacher here; Primary, central belt Scotland. Behaviour is out of control. Covid, rise in zero sanction/restorative practice, play pedagogy, parents on the breadline, reduction in social services are all contributing factors.

Did you ever consider that the HT knows the child's circumstances better than you or your child? Perhaps he had something horrendous happening in his home life. Children ultimately want someone to give them attention and show they care about them. Why is that so bad? It sounds like your child got peace to complete their lesson and the boy got a positive role model to spend some quality time with him. Surely that's a good outcome for all?

Behaviour is getting worse every year - I teach a practical subject and don’t have many behaviour issues but that’s because I’ve been at the school and teaching for years and I am what kids would describe as ‘strict’. There’s lots of issues.

It’s not as simple as permanently excluding students - this is SO hard to do. They can only be perm exed if they have brought in a weapon or drugs, or if there’s a persistent pattern of disruptive behaviour. However, the onus is on the school to demonstrate they have done everything within their power to help the disruptive student before they perm ex. So in theory students can assault others, be verbally abusive, persistently disrupt classes and so on regularly and the school just has to collect evidence of this before the child can be kicked out.

Teaching is not a desirable profession at all anymore. I’m just about to have my first baby and I’m already worried about them going to school!

Completely agree it's got worse. It goes hand-in-hand with lack of resources.

I started a thread about this recently, from a secondary (support) staff point of view. Behaviour is shocking (and this an Ofsted ‘good’ school). Pupils don’t care less about sanctions. In fact, many love going to the isolation room for a doss or receiving a fixed term exclusion so they can play on their games console. Students return from FTEs and carry on the same dreadful behaviours. Those with a permanent exclusion just move on to create havoc at another school. Many parents are unsupportive and blind to what their children are up to. So many students are internally AWOL then parents blame the school when they are failing. Uniform rules are ignored. Swearing and disrespect is commonplace. Vape alarms go off frequently. Toilets and property are trashed. Bullying is rife.

I’m completely generalising and there are some lovely hardworking students but they have to put up with an awful lot of disruption. Without lots of independent study, they would be lucky to achieve their potential in our school. Students who aren’t ringleaders but are easily led get dragged into copying bad behaviours.

On occasion I have been quite scared by situations, a feeling that a bad escalation could happen. I think staff are intimidated and students can sense they rule the roost. We’ve had a 50% turnover of staff and there are many unfilled vacancies. Supply staff come and are never to be seen again. I’m joining the ranks and leaving soon. The education sector is in crisis. I’m glad my children are almost through the system.

@Sophie12319 its not necessarily that they don’t need a TA it’s because they can’t fund TAs for all classes so prioritise TAs in KS1 and hope there are sufficient resources to help children who need extra support in KS2.

Parents do need to help, push on Government for funding, support school if they admit their child’s behaviour could be improved

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101 yes reinforce the behaviour with positivity? The boys haven't improved. Probably because they think they'll get a lovely afternoon if they misbehave.

I stopped working just before Covid and behavior was atrocious. Tables thrown about majority or lessons with pastoral team/senior management not batting an eyelid. This was in ofsted rated 'good'.

So god knows what it's like after Covid - I never returned. Fuck that for a bag of rice. My children will not attend when they're old enough either. We shouldn't expect our kids to deal with that everyday. As adults, if work was that violent and toxic we'd call the police.

Another teacher here and agree with pp - post covid behaviour is awful. Kids think they can do what they like and they are right, because their parents defend them. A boy in my class was supposed to miss ten minutes of playtime today for bad behaviour. His mum complained and, when I didn't back down, kept him off school.

Having experienced the taster day at the local state school, I put ds forward for a maths scholarship at a small independent which thankfully he got, and now I've mortgaged my soul to keep him there until his GCSEs. I didn't feel I had any choice.

I work in an independent and agree with others, behaviour has worsened post-covid. We have a massive issue with year 8 and 9 boys thinking they own the place. It is hard and hard to put them in their place.

The thing with getting the boys gardening is that it sends a bad message to the well behaved kids… to them it’s a reward and it’s not fair… at my DD’s admittedly lovely school the head only ever greats the ‘trouble makers’ by name as they enter the school grounds gives them high fives etc. wouldn’t know my well behaved DD’s name which I think says it all really… bad behaviour gets attention

Wow! Glad you have retired and don't teach my child! 😜
I've taught for 20 years and truly the only major behaviour issues I've come across are kids that have horrendous home lives or have significant additional support needs which can't be met (no matter how hard we try) in such large classes with zero support.
Obviously I have had my share of spoiled children too but their behaviour is just attention seeking and easily quashed. The most significant dangerous and disruptive behaviour is a symptom of a broken system.
Teachers need to report everything, challenge procedures put in place by management who don't teach and seek union advice if there is no improvement. Parents need to speak up and go beyond the school to tell those in charge that ALL children have a right to an education!