Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

This. And jail if it carries on.

Agree with this.
There’s just something fundamentally irrelevant and out of date about school today. As an ex teacher and home educating parent, I’ve taken a huge step back and can see how it’s just not working for today’s children and for the society we live in. It’s like we’re bashing heads against brick walls and expecting the same outcome as 20/30/40 years ago. The world is a completely different place. Technology has changed our worlds forever. Kids today are what I call ‘digital natives’. They know they can google anything they need to know.
Combine this with poor parenting, cost of living crisis, pandemics, Brexit, underfunding of education and a Tory government forcing a Victorian-style of education on our families and it’s the perfect storm.
I don’t know what the answer is but it runs much much deeper than just ‘poor discipline and poor parenting’.

A phone at 8?

Plenty of evidence from people on here.

A firm nipping it in the bud is a far cry from screaming at him so much in public that he ends up crying hysterically and the teachers are too embarrassed to even look at you. Sure your child is behaving? Or are they just not telling you stuff anymore in case you come in and do that to him again?

You took your stress out on your child in a horrific way. And you seem proud of it. I have a child with adhd. I can't imagine what he could do that was so bad that i would humiliate him like that.

year 8

But this is one of the main issues ...parents don't see a link between how they act and how their child acts and then blame the child for misbehaving. If you scream and shout at your child to get your point across that's what they learn to do to. And if you are doing this to a child you know has ADHD then you should be ashamed of yourself not posting it on a forum discussing how to deal with difficult behaviour.

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101

Like I said, trauma isn’t an excuse for the violent, atrocious behaviour we see in schools today. That’s not what you call trauma informed I’m afraid. Unions are often useless, as are SLT. Teachers don’t just lie down and take it, how offensive. They are tired though and many who have self respect have left or will be leaving shortly. Your post is a pipe dream.

@YoucancallmeKAREN how would the army vets instill discipline if, you are not allowed to punish / exclude? What do you think they would do better?

I used to

But now my DGC are the victims of some pretty appalling behaviour which the school seems either unwilling or unable to deal with, I know where my sympathies lie.

And some of the bullies have perfectly normal home lives (I've known their families since primary)

However, you, for whatever reason, don't seem to care about what this behaviour is doing to the victims, as well as the perpetrators then I don't have any more to say.

Perhaps that was better in some ways for the majority

There was definitely more respect

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101

I suggest you educate yourself on what a trauma informed approach should look like within education. Dr Jessica Taylor’s work is a good start. Abusive behaviour cannot be excused full stop.

Nobody said trauma is an excuse...it's an explanation and the behaviour must be dealt with accordingly. I have first hand experience of this as both a teacher and a parent so it's clearly not a pipe dream. It's been a harsh reality for me. Why would I offend my own colleagues? We need to stand together and stand up for what we actually value. I have worked in schools where the behaviour was shocking and in my current school we have very little extreme behaviour. There is a fair amount of low level disruption but most experienced teachers can put a stop to this quickly and effectively. Less experienced teachers are supported to do the same. The extreme behaviour is dealt with by working as a team with parents being held accountable where necessary. It is achievabe but it's a long hard road. I was the union rep for many years and it was often a fight with management to get our voices hard but it's absolutely worth it to keep on trying.

Of course it is and if you're woke you can't complain.

I think you've completely misunderstood something I've written. Please don't assume I know nothing of trauma or patronise me with book recommendations. I have significant professional and personal experience in this area. It's really not a competition and there's no need to comment in an aggressive manner.

Please don't assume to know what I care about. My job is to care about the education of ALL the children in my class. If there is a genuine bullying case then it must be called it. This wasn't mentioned before in your previous comments. I would never suggest the other children just put up with it if there is violence or significant behaviour interrupting their learning. What I'm saying is that parents need to understand the issues going on and what teachers are dealing with and not rush to judge that it's simply a case of a "bad boy" doing x,y,z.
As I keep saying, speak up for your children. They deserve an education as much as everyone else. It's not one or the other. My frustration comes from parents demonising children without knowing the full facts and moaning on online forums rather than tackling the issue with the people who can do something about it. Complain to the HT and keep doing it. Ask what is being done to support your child (obviously you can't comment on specifics with other children) and meet her/his needs. Honestly, the parents who shout the loudest get listened to. And I'm sure the teacher will be very grateful that someone is noticing he/she needs help.

So ok, I'll not do anything anymore. He can continue to disrupt everyone else class clowning, he can continue to be rude and dismissive to the teaching staff, he can continue to be disruptive, ruining the other 29 children's education in that class. Is that fair? Think now, is that really fair?

I tried everything, talking, in school therapy and play therapy to deal with a childhood trauma, the school have bent over backwards to accommodate and help, but he was just pushing and pushing everyone to the edge of their sanity. He was escalating, and he knew it. It was becoming a challenge between him and another child in the class to up the disruptive behaviour. We knew it, we were all watching it, discussing it and trying many interventions.

Or he can have one uncomfortable 10minutes in an office and then move on with life.

He's been fine since, apologised for his behaviour to the teachers, and has since this, really settled in school, winning awards, doing class work and progressing nicely. Is he a fan of school, no not at all, but he's there, he's working and he's behaving.

The children who are kicking off in class are doing so because they are not getting the support they need.

What, all of them? That really isn't true. Yes there are lots of kids who need more support. There are also lots of kids who just find it more enjoyable to make trouble than to behave and learn. Anyone who thinks the only kids who cause trouble are vulnerable ones either hasn't spent much time with kids or is just in denial and pushing an agenda.

One parent this year, on a call home about behaviour (had previously left a voicemail) picked up, told me to F off and put the phone down 😱

Time to throw the disruptive unteachable kids into padded soundproof rooms and let those who do want to have an education actually get one. Yes those kids may have sad backstories or good reasons why they are little shitbags and in a perfect world with decent funding maybe we could do something about that, but this isn't a perfect world and funding is most definitely limited (thanks to our shitty economic system and our useless politicians, but that's a different story).

At this point though I no longer care - everyone else is suffering because of them.

Time to realise that 'no child left behind' more often than not means 'all children left behind'. We have to stop disadvantaging the majority to try (and usually fail) to make life better for the minority.

Goodness this is a depressing read.

I think the comments about curriculum are very important. There is so much pressure and homework on the kids in secondary. It's just way beyond some children. In my DDs case it's lead to mental health problems and extreme anxiety but I can see why other children deal with it through disengagement and poor behaviour.

My DDs school is ultra strict (no doubt as a response to these problems). But the result is highly punitive and causes high levels of anxiety for those who are well behaved - being fearful they will get detentions for the wrong style of trousers or shorts. So much focus minor mistakes yet repeat poor behaviour/more serious issues get the same punishment. So those with really poor behaviour just ignore the sanctions/treat them as a given.

This.

Consider that a child might not be very academic and struggle with learning. They will act out, show off, become the class clown etc to get out of whatever they are supposed to be doing so they don't need to face it. It's pretty standard. A teacher with 33 pupils in front of her/him is being pulled umpteen different ways and more demanding kids get the attention first. I don't think the OP was talking about kids with more extreme behaviour. There is always a reason for this and it is not always an obvious one.

I sincerely hope this is tongue in cheek. I hope to god your child never experiences physical or sexual abuse, death of a parent, a life changing injury or any other horrific event in their life to burst your sterile little bubble.

So glad I logged on to MN today and read this thread.

Until now, I had no idea that fining me for my autistic son’s meltdowns would a) cure him or b) magic up the provision he desperately needs but that doesn’t exist.

Maybe it can even stop the ‘poor, lovely, hardworking’ children from deliberately antagonising the disabled child to get a reaction too! 😍

So wonderful to learn that his issues are, in fact, all my fault for being a shit parent, and nothing at all to do with the absolute shit show the conservatives have turned this country into. In fact, it’s also the fault of ‘lefty liberals’ who haven’t been in power for the best part of a decade and a half.