Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

Send case officers come and go on a revolving door. A friend had 5 in a year here. In our Borough there's a backlog for EHCPs and not enough spaces for all the kids that need a specialist setting. There's not enough funding for TAsin general amd these are being cut right back

So a teacher has a class with more needs in the room than before and less help...

Teacher here. What you say is true for some of the children kicking off, for sure. However, there are some children who just don't belong in an academic classroom and should be doing something practical. Then there are some children who are downright feral, appalling humans who are merely following the example of their appalling parents. I once sat on an exclusion panel for a boy who had chased a classmate down the road with a foot long machete (we excluded him, wasn't the only offense by far) His mum was absolutely outraged and kept saying what disgusting racists we were and how unfair it was 🙄

Some classes I taught in had over 50% with identified SEN, so I’m it sure diagnosing even more SEN would help. The numbers of pupils with additional needs is huge in some schools. Also, we had so many parents who thought SEN meant their child could do what they liked with no comeback. It was a nightmare. I left teaching thank God.

Because 20 years ago so many of these children would have been automatically enrolled in special needs schools.
Because 20 years ago we had the staff numbers to support these children.
Because 20 years ago we had specialist services to support EAL, children with ACEs, children with speech and language difficulties, children with dyslexia etc.
Because 20 years ago we didn't have 24 hour access to social media and the bullying and self harm and mental health issues and misogyny and sleep issues which go alongside it.

My DD is 10 year 5 and behaviour in her class is dreadful. She got whacked on the toe by a child flipping a table over the other day, a boy in her class threw scissors at the teacher, they are often evacuated due to some kind of violent outburst. Only 1 child has SEN. It's terrible I feel so sorry for teachers trying to manage it

*Why are there so many more dc with these needs

I don't remember this 20 years ago*

When I was at school the bottom set was actually called the remedial class. One class out of 8, so c. 12% of each year group.

@Sophie12319 would you consider home education? Your DD can learn at her own pace and you don't need to teach her, you just have to facilitate her learning by providing her with the resources she needs. It's a very good way for children to become independent learners which sets them up well for if they want to study at a college or university. There is a lot to learn about Home Education, as a lot of people think you have to teach and sit at a table for 6 hrs a day, but it's nothing like that. You have the freedom to make it what you want it to be. I highly recommend it.

My children's state school doesn't have this because there are strict but the other secondary I know if does have disruptive classes.

My child's only 9 and she says the teacher can't control half the class.
Sanctions are given out constantly but even the headteacher gets verbal abuse from the kids and their parents!
The teacher said since covid she feels like it's the children and their parents have gone out of their way to challenge the staff daily on behaviour policy!

In my opinion, it's a mixture of things. General culture that children are to be idolised and parents support them no matter what; quality of teachers entering the profession is at an all time low and a lot of these low level behaviours can be nipped in the bud with clear behaviour systems and implementation and finally a lack of SEND funding and so many kids who should be in specialist aren't and the environment they're in causing deregulation and causes a culture of rule breaking and apathy amongst others. Sad state of education!

My friend has been a secondary teacher in Cambridge for 20 years, handed her notice in last week. It's a "good" oversubscribed school.

She's said that she feels physically unsafe these days. The final straw was a student threatening to stab her.

She's now applying for examiner marking/test content roles.

I know, but I'd had a shit week in work, contracts, pressures, stress, cost of living crisis was kicking off, rent had gone up massively, food prices, utilities. I was just stressed out of my skull trying to keep us afloat and figure it all out, and then he decided to be a smart arse in school and it just pushed me over the edge.

I'm genuinely not a yeller, but it really was the straw that broke the camels back, and he had it 2 barrels.

He's been fine since, except the climbing and living in dream land/fidgeting/blurting out answers and interrupting by going "please can I say something". But that's the ADHD.

He does genuinely do better with defined clear boundaries and expectations, so the wolly approach and soft boundaries he just can't do, but also he will use these to his own advantage. He's also terrible for peer pressure or "class clowning" sometimes, so you have to nip it in the bud with a stern "no, not acceptable". There's no discussion and restorative action needed, just tell him no, you've crossed a line, he's better off for it in the long run.

So is it behaviour or underfunded sen provision?

Lots of schools seem to be abandoning behaviour policies because Ofsted does not like to see many detentions and exclusions, so all the misbehaving kids ruing it for everyone and drag the rest with them to the bottom.

Are you really a teacher and you've just described children as appalling humans? The extreme case you mentioned is clearly not a common occurrence. Maybe the issue here is that the mother wasn't fit herself to raise a child. I seriously doubt any child who grabs a machete to solve a dispute has had a stable upbringing. Excluding them from further education won't help. They need specialist support.
This just proves my point that the support is not there, whether it be in class or through social work or CAMHS. As I keep saying, the system is broken and unless teachers and parents stand up and demand change nothing will improve.
Young people need adults to advocate for them not demonise them. No wonder so many children in care have such poor long term outcomes.

I currently teach Year 2 (I've been teaching for almost 30 years). These past 3 years have almost broken me...YEAR 2!!! Behaviour is absolutely shocking!! Parents do nothing! I had to speak to one of my parents this week about her DCs behaviour (swearing, hitting other children, being disruptive, slamming a book onto the fingers of another child so hard that I actually thought his fingers were broken (luckily they weren't!), deliberately throwing a bag at me with the intention to hurt, the list goes on!

These things have been going on all year and I've spoken to her numerous times as they are escalating ((she just laughs). This time her response was, unbelievably...'my boy doesn't behave like that, you're making things up, he's a good boy!' And then refused to engage with me 🤷‍♀️ just cuddled her child telling him not to worry he's a good boy...meanwhile he's smirking up at me under her arm as he's being cuddled 🤷‍♀️

We have no power...my head is there saying 'I'm sure Miss Chaos will sort it all out tomorrow and you can have a fresh new start...go home and come back with a clean slate' 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Nothing! No apologies or sanctions for APPALLING behaviour!

Problem is parenting is not as good nowadays, and parents know it, so instead of owning it they get defensive, so teachers/school feel powerless as a result.

If you see some of nobels threads you'll see whT it's really like for schools.

There's chronic underfunding. Schools drop "expensive" experienced teachers in favour of cheap nqts.

We have a recruitment crisis. So many teachers don't stay in teaching. It's a hideous job now. We aren't training enough to cover this.

Classroom behaviour is so much worse.e for so many reasons. Covid, send, poverty, less parental attention with kids in so much childcare, but a lot is unfunded SEND needs.

So many reasons. Teaching is in crisis.

Maybe only one child has visible SEN. There are many other reasons why these children have acted out so violently. Children don't flip tables and throw scissors at the teacher for no reason. What was done about it? That's the issue. That's what needs to be challenged? Where is the support for the teacher and the help for the children. Please ask your head teacher. Speak up or change won't happen and the teacher and children will face this over and over.

Is this really the root cause though?

We had 30+ kids in our class and never had a TA (I don't think they existed?) and while there was always a bit of bad behaviour now and then it was nothing like this

We’re sort of running into the opposite with our DC Montessori preschool - she needs super firm boundaries (which we enforce at home) and her teacher says things like “I asked her to sit in circle time 6 times.” WTF is she getting 6 chances to join circle time?! It feels like the teacher’s behavior expectations are so low and our daughter happily does what she can get away with. She also comes home daily with stories of other kids “using up their reminders.”

We’re likely going to end up with private school because the school district is integrated gifted education and special needs education into gen ed classrooms and the teachers are not being given any additional support to teach across such a wide range of needs from kids. Our DC is gifted (not a proud parent here, we were told by dr to get her tested because she was so far outside the norm and it was causing problems at school, life would be a lot easier if she was just regular old bright) and I don’t see how a teacher is going to be able to challenge her enough to keep her engaged (and therefore not misbehaving) and also manage kids with complex behavioral disorders.

Scotland here, primary school. I've never faced behavior like this, nor such entitled behaviour from such small kids. I love my job - I really do - but cannot continue for my own sanity.

UK class sizes also seem bonkers, we had 18-20 kids in my primary classes at state school.

Yes 30 kids is crazy.

All those who say it "wasn't like it in my day." That's because half the send kids would have been in a specialist setting.thay or in a sink set. Or sat on the benches in the corridor...

OFGS, Give it a rest.

Not all miscreants are victims.