Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

I have no doubt this is still the experience of many kids in top sets. "Naughty" doesn't come close to describing a lot of the behaviour issues. My year 9 class can be naughty, in that they chat too much and some of them can be complete wallies, but they don't make it impossible to teach. They're a higher set. My lower set year 7 class I get all sorts, ranging from homophobic insults to competitive arguing (gotta love "Stop arguing with me!" "I'm not arguing!"🤦🏼‍♀️) and safeguarding disclosures made mid-lesson (that is obviously not a behavioural thing, and I want pupils to tell us, but it is indicative of the problems we're dealing with)

Then Mr X is doing it wrong and a discussion on how to proceed needs to happen if his approach is creating more behaviour issues.

I haven't worked in a primary school for 10 years, but the behaviour then (in a very upper-middle class area) was shocking and gave me a panic attack.

Yes, my experience in a comp in a deprived area in the 1980s was classes of mostly good kids with one or two "jokers", but I was in top sets.

I have two friends who were in lower sets at the same school and now as adults, they are still bitter that they went to a terrible school with no possibiliity of learning anything or getting any qualifications because of the disruptions in class.

Post Covid or Post ineffective lockdowns which said education isn't important???

Yes no shame or embarrassment about their dcs behaviour at times

I’m a school governor. Last week at a meeting of local governors representing 20 schools, TWO reported they had had to send letters to parents banning them from the site.

It's kids like your friends I feel sorry for! The ones who are not very academically able but are very well-behaved and really want to do well. They end up in the sets with the worst behaviour and I really feel for them!

I completely agree.

I think the current fad of rstorative practice was rushed out with little consideration for the fact the the pandemic has significantly changed our kids and what we dealing with day in day out.

Please keep him in when he's next in school! My school is amazing with this, if kids stay off school when they're supposed to be in isolation they'll just get put in there when they think we've forgotten and they come back to school😂

So do you really think that if these children got one to one specialist attention that they would behave?

I really do not think that the majority would.
There might be 1 or 2 who do need special education, but the rest are just naughty and their parents don't care and don't support the teachers.

My DH is a teacher and says that the difficult kids are the ones who’s parents will always back them up regardless of what they do and are even abusive to the teachers. Those kids know they can get away with it.

The Head Teacher at his school always gives in to the rowdy parents and gives in. The teachers have no protection.

I'm probably the same age as you and can think of a few children in my class who were probably undiagnosed SEN who we thought of as 'slow' or 'different'. If I'm honest, the teacher left them to it and it was assumed they wouldn't achieve. The teacher in those days had a one size fits all approach and it was a standard lesson delivered from the front.

The level of SEN now is extremely different though. In my latest class there was a range of needs including autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, physical disabilities, severe trauma and speech impairment. We also have children who are capable of working well above the class level and those who are new to the country and new to English. There was no support for any of these children except a classroom assistant three hours per week who was more often than not called out of class to deal with first aid.

As a teacher it is my job to meet all of these needs and ensure all children are achieving their full potential. There is no single lesson and everything has to be differentiated to meet the needs of all learners. Teachers are running round the room trying their best to help everyone. (Imagine a nurse with a ward full of patients all with different illnesses and all needing to be treated with different approaches at the same time by one person. The patients are not getting what they need when they need it and start to complain or become disruptive).

This is of course impossible but nobody wants to hear it. But you know we get six weeks off in the summer and only work 9-3 so why moan? 🤪

Mass academisation plays a part too I think. Post-Covid recovery needs total coordination to tackle, but it’s very difficult to do when you have loads of different academy trusts and CEOs with different levels of engagement and where the local authority, which could coordinate some of the work, has been increasingly sidelined in local education.

Why don't I know? I can assure you, for reasons I don't need to go into here, that I do.

And I worked in education too...

From my experience, yes I do. The ones who are "just naughty" can be squashed fairly easily with boundaries and consistency. I have taught so many children who I've witnessed speak horribly to their parents but wouldn't do it to their teacher because they know it's not accepted. Weak parenting or wanting to be your child's cool friend is a completely different issue and is not the cause of a significant rise in violent and disruptive behaviour in schools - despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe!

Strict catholic school, relatively inner city ... exactly the same. I worry about DS as much when he's in school, as I do for his journey to it.

Okay. It's probably a good thing you left education then.

Investment in all the diagnostic and supportive services such as CAHMS, counselling, SEN diagnosis, teaching assistants (we have 1 TA per year group shared between 10 groups), smaller class sizes. We have so many children who are on long waiting lists with very severe needs.

A change in the way schools are judged. Too many children are being forced to take all gcse's and EBAC subjects because the vocational courses we used to offer don't count toward the Progess 8 so schools no longer offer them.

Parents to model supportive and respectful communication with staff rather than hostility, accusations and absolute denial their offspring have done anything wrong. We are not criticising your parenting if we say your child did something wrong.

More non-contact time so that we can plan more effectively to support students with SEN.

For slt not to insist on meetings for the sake of meetings' because they've been calendared and we've paid you for the directed time'.

Whatever the primaries need to help get all the children Secondary ready. We have increasing numbers of children coming up each year who are not ready for mainstream secondary curriculum.

I work with so many parents of kids with additional needs/neurodiversity.

The same stories time and time again come up - kids who need more support than they get in class to function /survive. And overworked teachers who put it down to behaviour/naughty 😔.

Why are there so many more dc with these needs

I don't remember this 20 years ago

And yes to curriculums not suitable for more than half the students :(

And yr 6 just drilling English and Maths for SATs.

Fucking hell.

And I do think in some cases, some of the dc get so much support they lose the ability to think for themselves

And yet what we see in the ground is the opposite. So many children not getting the support they need....