Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

Sadly not a new thing at all. I went to a crap comp in the 80s and behaviour was poor even back then, with disruption in virtually every lesson, stuff being thrown about, bullying, abuse, assaults, etc.

I'd been to a "naice" primary school and it was one hell of a shock during the first few days at the comp. When pupils were swearing in front of the teachers, ignoring what they were told, etc., I expected the teachers to deal with it, but they didn't, they just pretended not to hear/see, and just carried on teaching even though there was chaos in the classroom.

That particular school never improved - I saw an article on it around 20 years ago in the local paper saying it was in special measures again and they had regular police patrols, pupils being searched for knives, etc. About 10 years ago they closed it down, and now the pupils just get bussed to a different school in the next town, and inevitably, that school is now in special measures too!

The government here in Scotland could reintroduce permanent exclusion if they wanted to. They’d have to fund another provision but if that’s what it takes to restore schools to being able a place of learning, that’s what needs to be done.

andyes our school has a police officer and a load of therapists attached. Price you pay for letting violence run wild.

I‘m just here to say that whilst I am surprised by some students‘ behaviour in younger classes, students do respond to behaviour management strategies and in other yr 7 classes, students are a dream; really clever, motivated and interested. I believe there are students who need lots of modelling and reminding of what a working environment should be like, but it‘s not unmanageable. I teach MFL and have had a hard time with some classes in all the schools I have taught at, but I don‘t think it‘s out of control. I think most students at my very large state school get an excellent education on the whole.

I work in a secondary school - the behaviour and the lack of respect from a lot of the kids is sickening

Behaviour is awful. I was called a Cunt today in an affluent school in Warwick.

It's definitely worse. I also agree it's got worse still since covid.

The language, rudeness and physical assaults I've been on the receiving end of this term alone are numerous and shocking.

My partner gets really concerned and often says if I were happy to deal with this level of aggression in my job I'd have become a Prison Officer. But at least prisons have actual sanctions in place and the behaviour is dealt with. The most we have in our arsenal is keeping them in at breaktime and a phonecall home. Neither of which achieves anything.

I've never known rudeness like it.

I'm in primary.

My son is in a very rural school and in yr5. He says he takes himself out of lessons to go and work somewhere quiet because of the constant disruption. He had his head hit against a wall a couple of weeks ago and there have been proper fights breaking out in the playground. The teachers end up spending all of their time trying to coerce the badly behaved kids into trying to participate and the ones who want to learn get forgotten unfortunately (not the teacher’s fault at all).

We do what we can to provide a steady home life for them. Trips out for walks etc and are lucky to be able to take them places. The badly behaved ones are the ones that are just let out to behave as they wish all day and it seems their parents don’t do much with them at all.

I don’t know what the answer is but it’s not the school’s fault. They are just having to deal with the epic disregard people seem to have for everything now.

One easy and quick way to stop the bad behaviour is fine the parents every time their darling little brat acts up. Problem would be sorted in a flash, if the parents don't pay they child can't attend school until the school see the money.

because there are no badly behaved girls?

Exactly this ^

Behaviour plans that are followed and include sanctions not rewards for negative behaviour. Support in class for children who are struggling from people experienced in behaviour difficulties which can be used after they go so there in consistency.

Behaviour acknowledged by up high and not just ignored due to 'trauma' but addressed so the child can see they need to react differently for their own growth.

Parents not refusing support because they don't want their child labelled but then accepting that their child is causing huge problems. Actively working with the school to support the child with dealing with their anger or frustration in a more positive manner.

It will cost money and that is what we just don't have in schools.

Yes it's bad. My daughter was slapped on her bottom today by a boy the same age. Nothing was done.

I assume the boy just sees this at home or elsewhere.

The irony is you’d have better protection as a prison officer and, as you mention, sanctions in place.

I think they mean human resources i.e. staff! When I started teaching we had significantly smaller class sizes and considerably more specialist staff. Children with additional needs were either given places in specialist schools or were given a classroom assistant to help them in class plus access to speech therapy, CAHMS etc. There was special provision for children arriving with no English and support for refugees and children who had experienced trauma. This just doesn't happen any more. Everything is down to the class teacher who is spinning plates trying to meet everyone's needs and raise attainment at the same time!
Hence the huge numbers leaving the profession.

Yep. Short answer shitty kids raised by shitty parents. The cycle never ends.

You can't withhold education from a child because they have been subject to poor parenting. Don't be ridiculous!

My son is in year 8 in a private school here and he says the kids regularly swear and low level misbehave. For him this is new as we’ve moved from Australia where he was in primary school. However, from what I’ve heard from friends over there, year 7 in his private school is awful too! Vaping (and it’s banned in Aus!), bullying, stealing from the canteen, physical fights, it sounds terrible and is NOTHING like it was in junior (the junior and senior are on the same campus although the intake doubles in year 7).
I have no idea what’s going on or why covid would have had this effect to be honest.

No, not all of them

Some do it because they want to and they can

You need to see it as the rest of the class getting respite from the kids with behaviour issues. It's not fair that these boys are doing something fun rather than the same lesson with the head but the system is fucked. There's no other schools where the boys can go because of resources and schools are discouraged from expelling kids because there's no alternative schools. Plus schools have to deal with parents who think that they are against their kids which makes them bolder. Inclusion is clearly the cheapest way for government to fund schools and the kids who want to learn are the victims of this.
Ime your school will be biding time until they are the secondary school's problem.

we had an incident where my year 8 son decided he was going to be a cocky little shit in school earlier this term. This is a very good middle class faith school which has traditionally had few behaviour problems.

Lets just say that I went absolutely nuclear with him, you could probably hear me in france. He has no SN, he's very bright, work comes easily to him and he's a smart arse. I said to the school I would fully support any sanctions they put in place and that I was 100% behind them and would deal with any poor behaviour. He had no phone or wifi for 2 weeks, I made him write to the teachers who he had been rude to and to apologise to them and guess what, he has behaved. If I am ever called by school again about his behaviour (which obviously isn't his fault, it was his friend, he wasn't doing anything, they hate him etc etc) he knows that his chances of seeing 14 are slim. Obviously not literally but you know what I mean

Your daughter could be in my class.

This is so common place now.

Unless people actively intervene to break the cycle! Do you honestly think the kids want to be shitty and grow up to have a shitty life? 🙄

In secondary school, we never had pastoral stuff or TAs. We had a very diverse school with lots of people who's first language wasn't English and an influx or Iraqis because of the war. We had one tiny room for remedial and that was during Labour times.

It’s the perception- PERCEPTION- of the other kids that matters though!!! If it looks like the kid gets reward for dicking around they’ll all dick around! So whereas you’ve solved the problem with one child, you’re left with 10 new problems. And the poor victim of the violence sees no sign that their complaint was taken at all seriously. Failure all around.

Smaller class sizes, sanctions and temporary exclusions for violent or abusive children, pressure on parents being held to higher expectations rather than being pandered to and excused.