Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

Absolutely. But the vast increase in children who do suffer this kind of trauma is one of the reasons schools have so many children they struggle with. One or two in a year group is manageable, when it's three or four in a class, it's not.

I agree blended families are really tough on a child, but I also think people underestimate how difficult they find shared parenting, two homes and feeling torn between two parents who are both very involved and caring. No matter how amicable everything is and how good the shared parenting is children still know they're going to hurt someone whenever they make a choice.

It’s down to lack of funding and poor understanding of mental health more than anything. There is not enough staff now to manage behaviour effectively and a lot of staff are new and inexperienced or are cover teachers. Massive cuts in SEND funding has meant children are not getting the support they need which then results in poor behaviour.
Also a poor understanding of mental health and a lack of services related to this (CAMHS is a joke) means a lot of children again are just not getting the support they need.
Fore behaviour to improve schools more money needs to be invested in schools and children’s services.
Well done tories!

Nope. You were wrong and got me mixed up with other posters who spoke about single mums, but you didn’t have the maturity to admit it and apologise to me. Anyway, I will leave it there as I see what I am dealing with.

When people ask what has changed on the last 30 years, a lot of it is due to the curriculum expectations, timetable pressures and the 'coverage' we are expected to achieve.

Remember when you just ran around the playground for 10 mins playing and talking to your friends before the bell went in the morning and you lined up? Doesn't happen anymore. Straight into the classroom and straight to work.

Children come into my class and they start work at 8.45 - as soon as they come in. Handwriting, gap tasks, finishijg work or they read in complete silence. They're not allowed any time for a quick social catch up with their friends. They are expected to enter the school and then the classroom in silence and remain that way. Some of it is intended to prevent problems arising (and it does) and to ensure the children start the day ready to work (and to a,n extent it does) but it also reduces them to robots. All they want to do is have a quick catch up with their friends and they can't.

The Asistant Head walks around classes monitoring that this is happening and it falls back to a 'conversation' with the class teacher if it isn't. Some come in hungry or not having slept because of home issues. Some come in in tears because of an argument at home in the morning that wasn't resolved. Many could do with a 'breaktime'/bit of social interaction before they start.

And thats how it continues.

They get 15 mins break in the morning and 45 mins at lunch. Unless of course, they didn't finish their work and have to stay in or have is behaved when they miss it.

There is little to no downtime. Contrary to popular opinion, the last two schools I've worked in haven't allowed children to watch films at all. Not even in the last week of a term. Reason being most of them will spend their holidays in front of a screen (it's true).

Our subject coverage is monitored frequently. Books are monitored frequently. We have to have evidence in their books so even lessons that would benefit most from an in depth discussion (and when we do manage this the children are engaged and focused) require them to be sent back to their tables to complete an often arbitrary task as evidence for their books.

And whilst this does come from the HT, it is driven by the LA expectations and external monitoring.

@OldChinaJug

Ive been in a reception class this week. Most have missed their first break to catch up on work. We did put one film on for them in the afternoon but they couldn’t concentrate enough to watch it and the large majority were disruptive so we went back to writing. There is continuous provision throughout the day but still a high expectation even in reception to sit at a table and write.

SparklingMarkling

I agree.

I was telling my class the other day about how, when I was at school, we had time in the afternoons when we had a story and could lay our heads on the desks and sometimes children even dozed off.

They were astounded!

Even now, we have to take that opportunity to stop and ask them to consider what an unfamiliar word might mean, or what they think will happen next or some inference question.

They're rarely allowed to just 'be'.

I remember afternoons at primary school being very relaxed and fun. Bit of art, playing rounders, sitting listening to teacher playing piano and singing along. No pressure to cram the curriculum and spend every second ‘learning’ for a test.
There is SO much pressure on even young kids today at school.

Yes it's become ridiculous and like a factory almost

I’m a secondary teacher with a baby and toddler and I would much rather my kids could experience this that what they have now!

@Ihatepickingausername3 That's taken me down memory lane now - in primary, 'Mrs Jenkins' playing the piano whilst we all sat crossed legged on the shiny wooden floor singing, 'Red and Yellow and Pink and Green...Orange and yellow and bluuue!'. At lunch time, we would all go into the dining hall, where all the teachers sat round the front part (so they could see everyone) and Mr Smith, the headmaster would play a piece from Chopin?? not sure. It was the same piece EVERY single lunch time. There was no throwing of chairs, no punching teachers, everything was just peaceful save for the clatter of cutlery and children chatting. Whenever our chatter got raised to a certain point, Mr Smith would tap loudly on his table with his knife and there would be a dramatic lull. This would continue until everyone had finished.

Surely this bad behaviour can be linked to poor diets, disrupted home lives, living on devices, not playing out, gentle parenting, social media etc. In secondary lots of teens are up all hours on Snapchat or gaming and then chugging Monster drinks before school with plenty vaping too.

Society is poisoning the youth of today, you only have to look at the under 40s to see the damage modern life is having on relationships, physical health and mental health. Junk in and you get junk out.

School behaviour is suffering because the system is failing everyone, unless of course you can opt for private. I can see a point in the not too distant future where teachers start to be replaced with AI and only a human ‘custodian’ will be present in the classroom for safety. It’s coming because the profession is slowly becoming untenable and too much hassle judging by the replies on here.

I disagree entirely that school has changed, so that children are less able to cope. It has never been more accessible and supportive of children with difficulties, even in the face of budget cuts. We have play therapy, sensory circuits, TAs, SENCOs that just didn't exist when I was in primary school.

I think what has changed is the ability and desire of many adults in schools to be authoritative. The more ad hoc, less predictable atmospheres of schools are good for no-one, except educational consultants and wannabes who thrive on constant change and the Next Big New Thing.

@manontroppo

I work via an agency so I’m in and out of schools, what is this utopia you speak of where all these TAs, play therapists and sensory rooms exist? Lol 😂.

No desire to be authoritative? What are you even talking about? Teachers who use firm discipline are usually instantly called out by snowflakey parents.

How much of this is to do with kids accessing inappropriate content online? Most parents seem to have no idea what their kids are doing online for hours every day. We already know they’re accessing extreme porn which is affecting their relationships and contributing to the horrendous misogyny in schools.

And how much poor attention is due to awful diets? Kids are being fed ultraprocessed food daily. I see them leave school and go straight into the corner shops to buy energy drinks, family size packs of sweets and biscuits.

Add to this the dreadful parenting that so many receive (being told they don’t need to listen to their teachers, being spoilt and never being told off) and it’s the perfect storm. These kids are being totally let down.

And the children with behaviour needs were all sent to ESN schools and borstals ...

@WinniFinniHadog what was he like during lockdown?

Today, we have PRU units, SEN schools, SEN support in mainstream schools (compared to ziltch back then) MH awareness pushed everyday in schools, via media, diagnosis and medication etc, yet we still have massively declining behaviour in every school as is evident from the horror stories on this thread in a way we never did back then when hardly any of aforementioned were available.

I reckon it's not declining but there just wasn't the same right to mainstream so no one in mainstream schools saw kids with behaviour needs and there was no social media so the spread of information and disinformation was nothing like it us now.

I mean, I wasn't alive then, but trying to imagine what the behaviour was like in a 1970s borstal ...

I also have family members who grew up in the 70s in poor inner city areas and apparently fights, arson, drinking, smoking, racism, bullying etc was absolutely rife.

I was awful at school in the 90s and 00s. The kids in secondary are tame nowadays compared. I'm sure it's like that for every generation. Even the behaviour talked about on this thread wouldn't have been anything like the worst behaviour in the school I went to.

It's primary school where the behaviour has got worse, or maybe it's because they don't get expelled anymore as SEN is diagnosed and plans put in.

A teacher stabbed at school this morning. Must have been premeditated as police called at 9.10am.
I wonder if the pupil will be suspended or just given detention or just told not to do it again?

It's horrific

And some LAs are trying to make it illegal to permanently exclude

The lies parents tell would be funny if the outcomes weren't so awful :(

Depends OP, do you think teachers getting stabbed is acceptable?

There are 2 Ed psychs in the whole of our (large) county

Camhs wait list here is 2+ years unless the child has actively attempted suicide

Staff are trying to teach, be SS and camhs. LA support non-existent

It can't go on

Next term, there may be some schools that can't open due to lack of staff/funds

Parents just don't want to hear this ^

I’Ve just seen this. The poor man, I hope he’s okay.