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Original poster

Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

923 replies

Sophie12319 · 26/06/2023 18:33

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

OP posts:
ContractQuestion · 30/06/2023 06:49

This is absolutely a problem everywhere now.

Lampzade · 30/06/2023 08:16

noblegiraffe · 28/06/2023 11:37

@Icandothis1970 I understand why a pupil might be apathetic in a subject where they’ve had no teacher or a teacher who can’t be arsed, that’s understandable.

But they are not being arsed in subjects where they do have a solid, experienced teacher who marks their work and teaches them properly. In core subjects.

This

Lampzade · 30/06/2023 08:25

Santina · 27/06/2023 20:06

I started out in education back in 1997, I left in 2019. You couldn't pay me enough money to go back in to it. I even had one student say he would love to sue me, for no reason. Every week I get emails and phone calls from agencies asking if I want to go back teaching. I've been offered £40 an hour by some agencies. The education system is broken, it encourages poor behavior, senior management hide behind their title and don't support the staff on the shop floor. I feel sorry for the younger generation that need an education.

My friend who left teaching has been offered up to £50 an hour( agency) to teach English
in various secondary schools. She has refused to go back which is such a shame as she was an experienced and dedicated teacher.

cobicat · 30/06/2023 08:27

My 16 year old DD complains about disruptive behaviour in a weary, resigned way but she also grumbles about her 'woke' millennial teachers, who dumb down the tone of the discourse in class, using casual speech, trying to be friends with the kids, calling them 'guys' etc etc.

She says it creates an atmosphere that doesn't feel condusive to learning, students feel comfortable interrupting and bad behaviour isn't really challenged. No doubt a lot of students prefer the more casual environment, it's an individual thing but also a shifting society.

Olderandolder · 30/06/2023 08:53

Children are customers. If school doesn’t provide something they and their parents value then they have no reason to be there. Of course being forced to go causes rebellion.

During 2020 they and their parents learned that Govt controls every aspect of their lives. That’s a terrible place to be. Of course parents and kids are angry.

woodhill · 30/06/2023 10:18

Fairislefandango · 29/06/2023 23:07

Sometimes what they're communicating is "I'd rather piss around than make any attempt to get to grips with Pythagoras".

Well quite. Anyone who thinks that the only reason a child pisses around and disrupts lessons is that they have some kind of trauma or mental health issue is very seriously mistaken and either went to a very privileged school indeed or has sonehow conveniently forgotten that straight-up naughty kids exist. Those naïve people would last about 20 minutes in a normal state school before the scales fell from their eyes. They'd then last about another 5 minutes before they thought 'Fuck this!' and walked out.

Yes indeed, also if one starts then it encourages others to play up

stbrandonsboat · 30/06/2023 14:17

I think, in the future, only those who can pay will receive an education. I think the government will be forced to provide a lower price/free online taught experience for those who are motivated and capable and the rest will be just left to it and spend their days at home either on games or out causing trouble. I can't see how an educational system can survive so many teachers leaving and so few people training.

Bunnycat101 · 30/06/2023 14:40

I have been shocked by the behaviour in my daughter’s (outstanding and affluent) state primary- she is only in year 2. The level of aggression and rudeness from some of the boys is astonishing but so is the degree of brushing it under the carpet from some of the parents. It’s now all ‘the teachers are being too harsh, they don’t understand my child etc’. It is infuriating. I don’t know if covid has caused some lasting social damage in these kids or if we’ve just been unlucky for other reasons. But, I do think small boys are being exposed to some really inappropriate tv. While the girls seem to be watching barbie fluff and my little pony, the teachers have sent home quite a stern letter saying they’ve heard children talking about squid game and Wednesday- neither of which are suitable for 6 year old children (unless you’re a complete idiot)….

What is striking though is that parties with that year group are much harder than in my 4yo daughter’s one. The 3/4 year olds are honestly easier than the 6/7 year olds. The last one I went to for my youngest, I genuinely couldn’t believe how nice and calm and polite they all were as I’d been so used to the feral behaviour of the older ones.

DoraSpenlow · 30/06/2023 15:02

Olderandolder · 30/06/2023 08:53

Children are customers. If school doesn’t provide something they and their parents value then they have no reason to be there. Of course being forced to go causes rebellion.

During 2020 they and their parents learned that Govt controls every aspect of their lives. That’s a terrible place to be. Of course parents and kids are angry.

I hated school from the day I started until the day I left. Had no interest in any of the subjects whatsoever. There was no choice about going every day. I didn't disrupt lessons, throw furniture or back chat teachers. There would have been hell to pay both at school and at home if I had. I'm 70.

I didn't appreciate my education until much later in life.

And when haven't governments been able to control our day to day lives if they so wished?

SkyLarkDescending · 30/06/2023 17:51

@DoraSpenlow

When you say 'there would've been hell'...

What actually would've been the consequences for you? Genuinely asking.

Riapia · 30/06/2023 18:09

There are no badly behaved children now.
They have behavioural “difficulties “.
FFS
🤬🤬

DoraSpenlow · 30/06/2023 18:10

SkyLarkDescending · 30/06/2023 17:51

@DoraSpenlow

When you say 'there would've been hell'...

What actually would've been the consequences for you? Genuinely asking.

At school. Hairdryer-type dressing down from form teacher and probably headmistress. After school detentions, probably for several days. Being made to sit alone in class during breaktimes. Extra homework from the teacher I had pissed off.

At home. Hairdryer-type telling off from both parents telling me how disappointed they were in me and that I had been brought up better than that and had let them down big time. Pocket money stopped. No meeting up with friends after school or the following weekend. May have been denied dinner on the day of the trouble-making and would be sent to my room after school with no TV for several days. (No other screens in those days). So it would have been homework and then bed.

Neither scenario I would have wished to repeat on a regular basis.

Having said all that, I was never in doubt how much my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. And a decent education would have been part of that.

JudgeAnderson · 30/06/2023 19:26

What it comes down to imo is, thinking about the society/environment I grew up in, adults were respected or possibly even feared, there was a culture of strict discipline and getting into trouble was something shameful. And humans, especially young humans, tend to conform to and emulate the environment and behaviours around them so largely everyone did behave, or at least tried not to get caught by an adult.

The environment in the UK in 2023 is pretty much the total opposite of that. There aren't really any consequences that children need to fear, and no sense of shame around misbehaviour.

Anxioys · 30/06/2023 19:52

Well today the primary school had to send a letter to the parents due to their own behaviour outside the school because of arguments about parking, bad language and fights which the children are too.

So yes, parenting is a problem.

DoraSpenlow · 30/06/2023 20:43

JudgeAnderson · 30/06/2023 19:26

What it comes down to imo is, thinking about the society/environment I grew up in, adults were respected or possibly even feared, there was a culture of strict discipline and getting into trouble was something shameful. And humans, especially young humans, tend to conform to and emulate the environment and behaviours around them so largely everyone did behave, or at least tried not to get caught by an adult.

The environment in the UK in 2023 is pretty much the total opposite of that. There aren't really any consequences that children need to fear, and no sense of shame around misbehaviour.

Agree with this. Especially the bit about getting into trouble being shameful. For both yourself and your family.

woodhill · 30/06/2023 20:46

Yes now it's the school's fault for upsetting them

SkyLarkDescending · 30/06/2023 22:02

Yes I agree that the fear has gone.

I'm trying to figure out what's changed. I suppose it's seen as bad parenting these days to shout at your kids. As teachers we are told we have lost control if we raise our voices. It's all about positive rewards to manage behaviour. I think it has led to kids thinking they should be rewarded for every little thing. For just doing the right thing. When maybe, that used to just be expected.

Giving sanctions only works if it's followed through and supported by parents at home. Otherwise children get the message that they're being punished unfairly.

CheeseBandit · 30/06/2023 23:04

I went to a school with quite a mixed catchment area, some kids came from some estates with very little. There was almost no issues at my school, mostly low level bullying but that’s it. No talking back, no walking out of classes, fighting was incredibly rare etc.
It was a Catholic school and the parents were shit scared of the nuns and the Deputy Head, which they had known since they went there. That consistency is lost.

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 01/07/2023 06:53

Im always fascinated by how everyone worried about the nuns. The modern image of nuns is frankly fluffy - but they were apparently hardasses.

The fear has gone from the whole of society. So far as I can tell, people just pushed all boundaries and no one wanted to be the ‚meanie‘ who said no.

CookieDoughKid · 01/07/2023 07:08

Got my kids into Grammar school not because of its academics!!!. The prime reason was because of disruption which I knew would be endemic. There are a few disruptive kids at the Grammar schools but they really are a minority so the effects are less.

JudgeAnderson · 01/07/2023 07:25

The fear has gone from the whole of society. So far as I can tell, people just pushed all boundaries and no one wanted to be the ‚meanie‘ who said no

Shame as well as fear. This should be a good thing but the reality is without shane there are no boundaries to any sort of behaviour and we've ended up with a general social free-for-all and it isn't always pretty.

x2boys · 01/07/2023 08:08

CookieDoughKid · 01/07/2023 07:08

Got my kids into Grammar school not because of its academics!!!. The prime reason was because of disruption which I knew would be endemic. There are a few disruptive kids at the Grammar schools but they really are a minority so the effects are less.

Grammar schools don't exist in most of the UK so....

PaigeMatthews · 01/07/2023 08:17

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 01/07/2023 06:53

Im always fascinated by how everyone worried about the nuns. The modern image of nuns is frankly fluffy - but they were apparently hardasses.

The fear has gone from the whole of society. So far as I can tell, people just pushed all boundaries and no one wanted to be the ‚meanie‘ who said no.

My dad hates nuns… but by God he knows his times-tables.

Ive a bruise this weekend from a child hitting me last week. Hard enough to hurt and bruise. His punishment is a detention… with me.

cobicat · 01/07/2023 08:21

The fear has gone from the whole of society. So far as I can tell, people just pushed all boundaries and no one wanted to be the ‚meanie‘ who said no.

I'm not enough of a historian to suggest specific precedents, but presumably this sort of thing is cyclical in human societies?

JudgeAnderson · 01/07/2023 08:47

I'm not enough of a historian to suggest specific precedents, but presumably this sort of thing is cyclical in human societies?

I'm not an expert although I do like to read books about social history from various time periods. No society that I'm aware of has ever been this permissive, but we're in an unprecedented situation in relation to the past in terms of population numbers, globalism, the internet etc.