Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

It took me 35 years to recognise autism in myself, and 7 to realise that my daughter follows suit. It’s all normal to me. I just didn’t quite realise I wasn’t ‘normal’. mine masks and copes well so I’m trying to work out if it’s a good idea to get a formal diagnosis for her or not.

In other news, I overheard a girl at our local pool yesterday saying that her French teacher can’t control the class, such that there has to be another adult there as well. Also, when there’s not enough supply they are left in a classroom with someone’popping in’ to check on them. Apparently they ripped down a display and were throwing things.

I’m trying to work out which school it is from the meagre clues she gave

Yep, I am one of the many who has left. I was ground down by the warped academic culture that encourages professionals to cheat to get results. But I could also see the writing on the wall in terms of the utter contempt schools show more experienced colleagues. I chose to stay in the classroom and was at the top of my game in that regard, but schools (or their leaders) neither have the budgets to employ people like me, nor do they want people who are independent thinkers. They want sheep who they can boss about.

I recently had a chat with a friend who works in secondary and oversees the trainee teachers. He said the ship is sinking: recruitment is at an all time low, as is retention, and the quality of those entering teaching is rock bottom.

That's what the Tories think of education. The only ones that deserve a proper education, in their minds, are those that can afford to go to private schools. they're the future leaders anyway, eh?

@KleineDracheKokosnuss mine coped fairly well until she was 12 and then she didn’t. Diagnosis is going to take about 2 years for us, I think it’s worth doing it as you don’t know how it be for her in the future. Also means she gets a EHCP to cover them throughout education, even uni. You don’t know how she might be when things change.

Autism is difficult to puck up in girls.

That was my point really. I was diagnosed in my early 40s. I wasn't picked up at school either because I just appeared quiet and compliant.

If her mum didnt notice anything at home, maybe the school didn't notice anything either. Girls often go under the autism radar.

Also means she gets a EHCP to cover them throughout education, even uni.

EHCPs are based on needs, not diagnosis. A diagnosis isn’t needed for an EHCP and having a diagnosis doesn’t automatically mean you will get an EHCP, many with autism don’t have one.

EHCPs don’t cover higher education.

Why not take a step back and look at the adult role models our young people have? 'Leaders' like Boris Johnson, completely devoid of dignity, integrity and morals. Bullies, be they politicians or people in everyday arenas of life enabled and never held to account. Wrongdoing, corruption, egocentricity and thoughtlessness rewarded and facilitated. It is a minority of adults shouting into the wind against all this stuff. Standards have been in the gutters for decades and we wonder why children are following our lead? None of this should be a surprise to anyone with even half a brain.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that all behaviour issues arise from poverty and vulnerablility. I work in a (seemingly) very nice village school. Very affluent village, houses go for around £750k. Small class sizes of about 15-20 children. Should be amazing!

behaviour is shocking. Children answer back, argue, have seemingly no understanding that they are children and no equal to the adults. Think nothing of swearing or shouting at adults. Furniature throwing. Don’t know how to cope with being told no, or having to wait. We get all kinds of enrichment activities such as ballet, circus skills, working with a local artist. Kids think it’s all lame and can’t be bothered.

it’s parenting, pure and simple. I spend 6 hours a day with then for 39 weeks of the year, the vast majority of the time they are being treated like royalty by parents who either Chuck money at a problem or are so desperate to be seen as cool and fun they don’t say no.

i used to work in an MOD school with kids who moved every 18 months to 2 years, really disrupted social networks and some very ‘interesting’ family dynamics. Behaviour wasn’t anything like this place….

The behaviour expert that works with our school says "all behaviour is communication". Maybe that's what's changed, school staff don't have time to hear/listen?

So why is it okay to blame ‘parenting’ s long as no mention of made off the the kind of parenting that many boys are deprived of and most need-ie the parenting of a father?

Right.

Can you explain specifically what parenting from a father is necessary that a mother cannot provide?

Do you believe lesbians should not be allowed to be parents?

While people are expressing controversial views, I actually think children of separated but co parenting parents often find life more of a struggle (reflected in behaviour) than those where father one parent has left altogether. No matter how amicable things appear to be children always find the pull / need to choose difficult and they definitely feel a need to keep everyone happy, so will tell you they're fine with the separation and coparenting arrangements regardless of whether they are.

And yet the actual data shows that children of amicably co-parenting but separated parents have equal outcomes to those raised by both parents.

The data shows that those raised by single parents alone have equal outcomes other than the impact of the financial penalisation by the state of taxing those families more on the same household income and the issues that deliberately inflicted additional financial stress causes.

The data shows that problems arise for children living in households with hostility, like couples who remain together when unhappy, or parents who have hostile separations. And particularly large damage to children - on average - subjected to "blended families" or step parents.

So no, it has nothing to do with "needing a man living in the house".

I'd like to see that data because I've seen some produced locally, regarding MH, that suggests something very different.

Many, many academic studies on these subjects are available online. And international data comparing across countries.

The behaviour expert that works with our school says "all behaviour is communication". Maybe that's what's changed, school staff don't have time to hear/listen?

I'm sure the staff are hearing loud and clear. I suspect a lot of what they're communicating is that they have parents that don't give them boundaries or enforce any discipline.

This is grossly unfair!
I'm so sorry that your daughter isn't getting the input she deserves.
I can very much relate because this exact thing happened to me and I have severe ADHD.

Only the parenting of good fathers. Bad ones do more harm than good.

And particularly large damage to children - on average - subjected to "blended families" or step parents.

Thos nasty step parents, eh?
I'd like to see the research...

Absolutely this .

Yes but I've never seen one that says outcomes are "equal"

The behaviour expert that works with our school says "all behaviour is communication". Maybe that's what's changed, school staff don't have time to hear/listen?

You wouldn't say that if you saw the enormous amount of time and effort devoted to listening to and trying to help students in schools. Including students who just give a mouthful of abuse to those patiently trying to help them.

Sometimes what they're communicating is "I'd rather piss around than make any attempt to get to grips with Pythagoras".

Sometimes what they're communicating is "I'd rather piss around than make any attempt to get to grips with Pythagoras".

Well quite. Anyone who thinks that the only reason a child pisses around and disrupts lessons is that they have some kind of trauma or mental health issue is very seriously mistaken and either went to a very privileged school indeed or has sonehow conveniently forgotten that straight-up naughty kids exist. Those naïve people would last about 20 minutes in a normal state school before the scales fell from their eyes. They'd then last about another 5 minutes before they thought 'Fuck this!' and walked out.

On the London news tonight there was an item re schools. Apparently, it is really difficult to recruit teachers, and supply teachers are often used. Even if a teacher is good, it must be difficult to teach a class that you have no knowledge of. Also, many teachers are leaving the profession so it's a double whammy.

It may be less problematic in other areas but I think there is generally an issue with recruiting experienced teachers.