Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

Yes it's certainly the worst I've ever known it. I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm though.

• some families reached absolute crisis point, without support, during the lockdowns.
• many schools are currently understaffed meaning there's nowhere to send children who need to be out of class and no support to help them stay in class.
• waiting lists for services that can offer support are huge. It can take years to get the right support or provision in place and while schools wait for it, they're essentially just firefighting.
• access to phones/social media/consoles has hugely affected some children's concentration.
• the services that schools predominantly work alongside (social services and nhs) are also massively underfunded.

I think if more people realised that these cuts don't only impact the vulnerable/send children but also all the other children in a class with them, then there'd be more uproar tbh.

I also think we're much more aware of children's mental health these days, which is obviously a good thing, but Im not 100% sure we've got the balance right yet when it comes to dealing with behaviours associated with mental health problems- ie having to leave the classroom or school refusing due to anxiety, wrecking a breakout room because of anger. I think we've still got a lot more to learn in that regard because I'm not sure current methods are helping to build up any resilience in our children- although I have no idea what the answer is.

Yes it is really bad and a total time waster for the children who want to learn.

Hang on a minute, I grew up in inner London, we were piss poor and so were my classmates, we were disciplined at home, we didn't talk back and we absolutely respected the teachers even if we didn't like them, order was always maintained and there was nothing wrong with that. Now kids are allowed to go rogue with a diagnosis attached, so suck it up, it's our own doing.

To repeat what many have mentioned upthread, it's not those "with a diagnosis attached" who tend to cause the most issues in schools, it's those who literally haven't yet been taught no or to wait their turn when speaking or that they are not the most important person in the room, or whose attention span is ruined by never getting off their devices.

Yes , vandalism and fighting and vaping or drugs happen and are scary and frustrating but it's the constant low level, speak whenever I feel like it, get up whenever I feel like it, non-stop infractions of classroom norms that are wearing down teachers and other pupils. I have seen kids sitting and silently crying because they're aware they're not learning anything (again). You can squash low level disruption in or or two or three kids per class. You can't when it's 15-20 of them, which is the sudden increase we've had in the last two years...

Phones, SM and parenting are massively to blame, with addiction to vaping being a further cause of poor behaviour in pupils above year 7.

‘Any more interruptions and you’ll be spending your weekend cleaning gum off the tables’

would that work ?

No, cleaning gum wouldn't work. Parents wouldn't allow it so it wouldn't happen.

I’ve been teaching for 20 plus years. Primary. Behaviour is appalling!

There is absolutely no support for children who are traumatised or who have SEND needs and the fallout on the other children is profound.

The systematic underfunding of the education system under the Tories has wrecked any support we can get and believe you and me it is your children who are suffering!

I agree! I teach yr6 & this cohort is the worst I've ever had...till next year! ☹️ I love my job & I'm bloody good at it but I'll be spending the Summer investigating alternative career paths - I DEFINITELY won't be teaching much longer.

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101 you are absolutely deluded to think all naughty children have trauma or SEN, completely deluded.

I'm wondering if you're the type of teacher who is enabling the bad behaviour. The "there, there" type of teacher.
There are plenty of brilliant kids who have had traumatic times in their life, they know how to behave and not be disruptive and then there are those who choose to be rude, belligerent and disruptive.

I fear we are going to have a serious incident in the school I work at. There is an undercurrent of unrest that is palpable, especially on the yard at lunch.
If it wasn't for my dedicated colleagues, I would have left years ago. At the moment, I am teetering on the whether to stay or go fence.
The kids are so vile, obnoxious and in some cases dangerous. I wouldn't be spoken to by my own child like that, why should I take it off someone else's?

Oh, and to add, whilst it is far from true to say that only boys are disruptive, it is true to say that where they are disruptive, the same kids often are not for male staff. There is a huge current of misogyny sweeping through schools at the moment, endorsed by some parents, and it feels like a losing battle. When you actually hear kids saying, "shall we just piss about next lesson? I can't be arsed" and you hear their pal reply, "yeah, it's only Miss X," you despair.

Exactly this.

Oh, and to add, whilst it is far from true to say that only boys are disruptive, it is true to say that where they are disruptive, the same kids often are not for male staff.

I think there's a lot of truth in this. DD's yr5 class is taught by 2 teachers (50-50 each teacher teaches their own subjects) and the behaviour is far worse towards the young female teacher than the male teacher.

To be honest, I am so fucking over caring about Wee Jimmy. If his parents can’t be arsed to sort him out, why should school or society? It’s a two way street, a bargain - we provide you with a free education, you turn up and engage. If they won’t keep their half of the bargain, no one else should suffer.

And don’t you dare tell us to complain or take it further. I was a school governor for the best part of a decade and saw a couple of great teachers hounded out by parents. We did fucking complain to everyone who would listen - the LA doesn’t care about SEN kids and will make a HT’s life a misery if they try to exclude, we called the police on violent parents but they did nothing. What do you think we have been doing?

And yes, the Tories may have been in charge but the damage is done by bleeding heart Paul Dix readers who want to play fantasy education and have messiah complexes about “saving” naughty kids.

And as others have said - yes, SEN kids can bring challenges but by far and away our worst issues were from overentitled little horrors who had shit parents. And yes, we do know enough about the families to make that call.

Dd's primary will have classes of 36 next year. Not the schools fault, oversubscribed and underfunded but I can tell you that it is not in the kids best interests.

I experience this all the time in my school. Comments such as "chill out" or "what's her problem" when I have to make simple requests like "sit down and get your book out"

I totally agree. There are plenty of children from perfectly stable families who think it’s perfectly acceptable to mess about because they think it’s funny and because they’re bored. SEN kids aside, those kids need to be dealt with by their parents. I mentioned above I have had this with my NT child. I hit the roof, I told him it was not to happen that he had to earn teachers respect, that it was disprespectful, that there were children who wanted to learn and he needed to quite frankly shut up regardless of what he thought of the teacher and the lesson. If more parents of entitled NT children who just think they’re being clever and funny did this then much of the behaviour would improve

Or complaints you haven't told a girl off yet that lesson. "No i haven't, no girl has misbehaved so far..."

Yes. The poor children having their lessons disrupted don't seem to figure in all of this.

So why are some schools better than others?

My twins have just done their A Levels.
They attended a large private school. It wasn’t perfect of course but they had outstanding and consistent teaching and no behaviour issues in class like I have read here. I read out some of the comments here to my two and they couldn’t believe it.

My kids are quiet and bookish and not part of the cool set. But there was very little bullying in the year, and I know lots of parents, teachers and kids. And there has been zero violence in the playground or abuse towards teachers.

I had loads of 17/18y olds over for their 18th at Easter and was struck by how lovely these young people were. Polite, respectful and even offering to help me clear up! Very focussed on a levels and their futures.

So what’s the difference? They are average teens. Only a couple with ND however. Parents have money so no social deprivation. School has consistent staff, no supply and didn’t close over the last couple of years when other schools were shutting due to covid. Aspirations make a difference too. Again I am not saying it is perfect and anxiety/eating disorders are rife, especially amongst the girls. But behaviour, respect and a willingness to learn are here. So it might all largely be about money and resources. If I was a teacher I would want to work there.

The one and only time my teenage son got in trouble, I was so so angry with him. And spoke to the school and gave the head of sixth form my support. Yes it was out of character blah blah but he was in the wrong and I supported the detention; my son was quite shocked. He said he thought I would take his side…

Of course social issues will be mirrored within schools. And all of us working in the public sector are coming across impossible situations and aggressive people with unrealistic expectations. I don’t know how we change that.

This is a shocking read. I am surprised we have any teachers left.

Schools lost their containing function during COVID, exacerbated by there not being consistent staff when all children returned.

It's very hard to convey the importance of attendance and actually being at school ie sitting still and shutting up when this suddenly became not important (in children's experience) for months at a time.

I'm not making excuses for children but I do tend to agree that a lot of angry, disruptive behaviour stems from that.

Definitely not making excuses for parents who don't back the school up in disciplining children though. My ds's behaviour has had low patches and I have always backed up the school and issued further sanctions at home if it's been serious.

My MIL gave up teaching because of the behaviour in schools. She just couldn't stand it anymore. We'd seen my DHs younger brother go through school and couldn't believe how much worse it seemed since we ourselves were at school.

This cemented our decision to home educate 11 years ago. No regrets then and definitely not now judging by the comments on this thread!

Appalling. So sorry to all of you that are teaching staff with your hands tied or parents that feel hopeless knowing what to do with their well behaved children.

Removing them from the classroom - yes.
Sending them go-karting - no.

Home Education? See my post above.

My DC are now late teens (one just finished full compliment of GCSEs) and have always been HEducated, mainly because of the problems I knew existed it schools and that was before it clearly got a lot worse!!

*in schools

I home educate too and the amount of ‘newbies’ since covid (mainly for reasons outlined on this thread) is staggering. Parents around here are pulling their children/teens out of school with regularity. Home ed has become a safety net for those families.