Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

Why do you think as teachers, that some dc are well behaved at home/friends/family but not at school?

One of my dcs is an angel in and out of school. The other listens to me at home but can be a nause at school. Not to the point of being excluded but I've had a couple of phone calls describing behaviour that @noblegiraffe describes. I think it's down to it being fun to be naughty and bored. It could also be that at home he just wouldn't get away with talking to me like that.

Yes, absolutely. It's hard enough for many teens to focus on school work and even harder when they have a couple of hours dossing in the day.

Where should Wee Jimmy be? Why should he not deserve an education because he had a shit start to his life and is scared and doesn't trust adults?

Any sane parent is going to prioritise their own child and of course they'll get angry if their child is being assaulted. If it's repeated and not dealt with then of course they will get compassion fatigue.

Some of the posters on here are despicable people and I can't actually believe they are parents

I think saying that about parents distraught that their children are suffering at school is deeply unfair. And dare I say also lacking in compassion.

@Nanny0gg Go above if the HT isn't listening! If you are genuinely scared for your children go above until you get what you need. Go to your MP. I can't comment on your specific situation. I just wouldn't stop if my child was an innocent victim of bullying. There are probably helpful threads re bullying on Mumsnet. Bullying is a different subject matter than the original post on disruptive behaviour. I hope your situation geta resolved soon.

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101

"Where should Wee Jimmy be? Why should he not deserve an education because he had a shit start to his life and is scared and doesn't trust adults? Some of the posters on here are despicable people and I can't actually believe they are parents. Maybe your child expressed a similar nasty attitude towards Wee Jimmy . It wouldn't be that difficult to imagine if this is his mother's attitude towards a CHILD his age. Children lead by example. Hence why Wee Jimmy doesn't know any better YET but can be helped. If you continue with your narrow minded Daily Mail attitudes then your child will grow up with a sneering, entitled attitude to those less fortunate and an inflated sense of self worth. Good luck with that."

Wee Jimmy should be in a setting with a high staff ratio that can meet his needs. Not thrown into a mainstream setting with no support where he can't cope hence him lashing out. Not fair on him, his peers or the adults who work with him.
PPs are not despicable people. They are everyday folk who care about their child's educational experience. There's having compassion and there's things having gone too far.

Why are you ranting on about children that have a poor start in life or have SEN?

They are not the main or only problem. Why do you not accept that little Oliver down the road who has a perfectly normal, but probably over-indulged home life is also a huge issue?

Pretend you're a HT. You have many MANY incidences of bad behaviour, from low-level disruption, to rowdiness to minor bullying, to violence. Kids having their belongings thrown around or stolen. Items damaged. Children damaged.

You have staff who are unable or unwilling to deal with it

What exactly would you do about it?

I work in a High School, I've never worked in a school before and I'm appalled at the behaviour of some students to each other and staff.

Students telling the Headteacher to f**k off, leaving classes, vaping in class, doing tiktoks of teachers, I could go on and on.

Some have no respect for teachers, support staff or visitors.

My school is considered a nice school as well!

Peer influence/pressure.

SM influence.

There's a difference between lack of compassion and demonising children for circumstances way beyond their own control. Think it through! The child hits out because that's all they know. As a supposedly rational adult you should know better and act better. Nobody wants their child to be harmed but surely you want your child to be understanding and empathetic to others less fortunate? As for the school saying he's in foster care - that is not an excuse and not how the school should be dealing with this behaviour. As a parent I would press for more support for your child. Also, the school shouldn't even be passing on this information so I'm going to take this post with a pinch of salt.

There are a lot of angry parents on here which as you say may be due to being distraught but I also wonder if their intolerant attitudes are being displayed in class by their own children.

I'll show compassion to children who have no choice in how they are raised over pitchfork waving parents anyday!

It's been the same since I was a kid. Disruptive kids got special privileges in a vain attempt at keeping them in line, those of us who behaved all year got nothing.

Firstly I'm not ranting. I'm explaining to people who don't work in schools that the vast majority of behaviour issues are down to lack of support, whether that be for ASN or ACEs. Secondly, as I've mentioned we don't have these issues in my school or the secondary school as they are dealt with swiftly and appropriately of they do occur and not left to fester.
If teachers are not able to deal with it then that is probably due to lack of support from management and parents. This needs to be addressed. There are a lot of ineffective managers out there who talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
I'm speaking from my own experience. As a teacher, if I felt unsupported I would be contacting my union, recording every incident and emailing my HT with concerns to ensure there is a paper trail kept for evidence. As a parent, I would also email any and every concern and ask how it will be dealt with. As mentioned before, if you are not happy with the response then take it further. Quote the quotes, hit them with the jargon and don't give them an inch. It's exhausting but necessary.
Schools don't have to be be the wild west saloons being described here. Plenty aren't. It's normally down to poor management and inadequate funding (not just at school level).

This

But that's EXACTLY my point about the lack of support!!!
Advocate for the rights of these kids to get what they need and your child gets what they need too. Everyone's a winner!

I was going to say this myself. This is what I experienced too.

But isn't that exactly what people were advocating for up thread, that disruptive children are removed from the classroom so that children who want to learn can?

I had 3 in different schools and 1 in college at one point and they were all the same in all the schools. Definitely worse post lockdown.
I don't know how the teachers do it.

Today a woman rang 999 to report a TA has assaulted her 8 years old because she took her by the hand and bac to her seat

This is the state of today's parenting

She cried when I told her it wasn't a police matter

It was over the toilet policy in a class of 22 8 year olds .

All I can say is we are all FUCKED if a parent can ring 999 to report assault "on behalf " of an 8 year old child for a TA taking them by the hand back to their seat .

I'm going to get a complaint because I refused to
Criminalise a TA for this .

I’m in my 20s so was in school less than a decade ago. I went to a state school. Even then, there was a culture of smart was uncool and it was better to be pretty, date, and be popular. This led to people being rowdy in lessons and focusing more on relationships with their peers vs the teacher/subject as they didn’t care about grades. Most of the pupils in my year didn’t consider going to university as their parents didn’t go to university so they didn’t think it was an option for them. I feel bad for them looking back because the school did F all to help them and almost stunted their potential. I definitely remember supply teachers essentially getting bullied because no one would listen to them in class.

I want to school in the 90s in east Lancashire and it honestly doesn't sound that different to a lot of the experiences on here

Kids effing and blinding, sex in the toilets, no respect for the teachers etc. But obviously no social media

A lot of the parents were simply unavailable if asked to come in to the school

@UsernameAlreadyTaken101 interesting perspective but not my experience - for me it wasn’t the kids with SEN that were the issue (although incredibly challenging with so few resources and extra adults) it was the entitlement from the kids backed up by parents who refused to accept any discipline whatsoever for their children. I’ve never had any issues with behaviour management but when that’s constantly undermined by parents it becomes almost intolerable.

This leads directly to the issues in secondary schools which are off the scale - and exacerbated by the endless stream of supply teachers who are unable to teach effectively due to these behaviours.

Where will your kids go then? Just curious

Do people generally think this will get better with time? Already my DD primary school has poorly behaved kids that interrupt the learning of others and the teachers view is that ‘we all have to help them’. Is this correct!? My DD is very bright and well behaved why should she have to look after others in a learning environment ? I say this as her little sis my second DD will have behavioural issues and learning disabilities due to rare genetic condition - so I am not being discriminatory!

Some schools yes.

Not getting a bus through Croydon at school leaving times ever again! 😳

Fortunately not in that area very often full stop.

What a massive disservice left wing, namby pamby politics have done to our children.

I think you are mistaken about which politician have been in charge of education policy over the past 13 years. If only some of them would actually read this thread and become aware of what funding cuts and inappropriate curriculum changes have done to our schools.

At least complain to both HoY and Head, then at least it's recorded.