All women I know are in my situation

[growli]

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain.

It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish.

I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids.

I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children.

In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too.

Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex.

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family.

Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them.

I realise I'm generalising

She's actually number 3. I was number 2. I gather this free loading happened with number 1 reading between the lines.

And here we have an illustration (one of many on here) of why I don't like when the not all men starts. Because some women give sympathetic answers and explain how they understand and how their partners do different. Okay, great.
But then you have the blamers. "who married them? I would never marry that man. I would never stay like that? I would have told him off every day, Do women still have sex with these men." and on and on and on. Blame, blame, blame.

@Pythacalling702 I totally agree. I think that’s partly why those self styled “good guys” who contribute very little, don’t like being called out on their behaviour and are so resistant to change. The Germaine Greer quote “women have very little idea how much men hate them” comes to mind. Women are quite naive, in general, about the level of disrespect and contempt alot of men harbour for them. I think if the truth of men’s hearts and minds were somehow exposed and written on their foreheads, a lot of women would be shocked how far they had to look to find one who truly considered them their absolute equal.

Most of my friends are with blokes like this. They seem to think we are still in the 1950s. My ex husband was just the same. I am now with a man who is more than happy to cook, clean, etc. In fact he's a better cook than me. We have had this conversation many times as he thinks all blokes are like him. Sadly they are not.

This thread is just one big pity party with posters getting offended when you aren’t like them and and desperately trying to drag you down to their martyr lifestyle with the claim that there’s no way other husbands are actually decent humans who don’t take their wives for a ride and let her be a domestic slave.
All men are like this!
All women suffer! …Apparently.

Does collective misery make them feel better?

If you are listing and assigning, you are still carrying the mental load aren’t you?
my DH would do things when I ask him and sometimes he needs reminding a few times - why? I want him to THINK about things that need doing around the house and for our lives to function day to day and do it without being asked

I find it quite interesting that a few posters like to insist the wife isn’t to blame at all, it can’t possibly be anything to with the dynamics in the house.

But then go on to blame the man’s mother. It makes absolutely no sense. Even if it’s the mother fault and not the man in question, did no women meet their husbands before they married them?

This is a really complex issue and how society is set up and how we all play into it, to varying degrees is the issue. But I don’t get how some women just love to blame the mil.

It’s not blame it’s just accountability for your own life. No one is going to live your life for you. If someone isn’t happy in their relationship, feels taken for granted, feels taken advantage of then ultimately it’s on them to change things.
Moaning that it’s just blame only plays into the victim martyr mentality that there’s no way things could be different, boohoo don’t blame me because I’m miserable.

I think a lot of the issue stems from societal expectations. In the past we typically had more specific roles - men worked, women raised children. Now women want/need careers too but there's still the children/housework/mental load. Even 50/50 split is a lot of pressure so unless you have strong family support or can afford childcare/cleaner/gardener etc it's struggle.

I think a lot of men recognise they can not cope with the extra so they drop it as a self survival thing but don't consider they are putting more pressure on their partner. In my experience men often care less about how tidy the house is and wether the children do extra curricular activities etc due to the fact that society places less pressure on them to perform as a family member. So they figure it makes sense to drop some of the household stuff .

My husband can not cope with 50:50 split. He has a very stressful job and struggles to manage much beyond that. We have an agreement that I work part time so I deal with all family stuff mom-Fri. He helps put our son to bed on a evening but that's it. But At weekends its 50:50. We also give each other time off at weekends.

It works for us, he has better earnings potential than ido and we have limited family support around and do not earn enough to out source everything. There's no resentment and we both respect each others roles.

To be fair, we talked about a lot of things before getting married and I said I wanted to have the full year off if we had children!! I'm not sure that shared parental leave is that popular with most mums. (I am all in favour of its availability, and if it suits your family, great. I just don't think the majority of mums want to use it.)

We do have a good share of work in our house, and he does most of the mental load (all the bills and budgeting, because I don't want to spend time finding the best deals) as well as some cooking and laundry, and a lot of washing up/ tidying up after meals. And that's with me on maternity leave. When I go back, he'll be doing more (we'll both be working but neither full time.)

I think probably what helped us have this split is that we got married before living together. That meant it felt natural to discuss how joint life would work before getting married. Some things obviously haven't gone how we imagined, but it was a good starting point and very useful to us to have that formal line where we combined households. Which is interesting, because it runs counter to the fairly common advice about trial periods.

And it was about 3 pages back where you blatantly denied that there were any decent men, sniping that even the decent ones were fake. That really sums up your world view and what you really want from a thread like this. An echo chamber of pity and moping about a situation people feel trapped in.

Whilst you're trying to call out those of us who have genuinely decent husbands, you're neglecting that we're just saying that it's not acceptable, we wouldn't put up with it and that there are men out there who won't take advantage of your good nature. It's not a NAMALT thing FFS but you take it as you desire.

We're 36 pages in and I've not read many, if any solutions or credible ways to progress people's lives. Is this what you call the sisterhood? It sounds more like a bunch of women refusing to acknowledge that they have some control over their own lives, summon up whatever resources they have and to say enough is enough. This stops here.

I did exactly this with my EXH because I simply refused to allow an inadequate man to make my life a misery. I eventually met my OH and he's the complete opposite. Someone upthread claimed that I've lucked out. Bollocks. We had an adult conversation, given my past marriage and how I wouldn't stand for any BS. What do you know, he'd been taken advantage of in a previous too and so we made a pact. 25 years later and we're still rubbing together nicely.

But… in many cases, you have a choice. It won’t necessarily be easy but you do have a choice. And sometimes you need someone to tell you that. To make it clear: you deserve better: you don’t need to put up with that shit.

i spent many years in jobs which were toxic environments and it’s taken until I was 40 to realise: I don’t need to put up with this.

so.. you may not be able to force him to do his equal share in the house. But you can leave: tell him to leave, talk to him about it (might not work), stop having sex with him. There are options

Spot on, @SamanthaCaine .
Have an adult conversation. Discuss household responsibilities.

@SamanthaCaine couldn't agree more.
I have been married 35 years and I have renegotiated terms post babies, post babies growing up and moving out. Personally I wouldn't marry again because I like my own company but I reserve the right to change my mind!

Women will never progress and will always be seen as second class citizens if we allow men to walk all over us so easily.

Yes, obviously it's 100% the faul of the man but mostly were not prisoners and personally, fear of the unknown was not an option. Because that's what it boils down to often, fear of the unknown, what will happen, the potential hardship etc. But personally, whatever was awaiting me on the other side was better than being a doormat. It could be shit but it'd be my shit and not from him.

Absolutely and it's so good to hear this from other women. You most definitely have the right to change your mind too!

I made it quite clear he'd be out the door (and vice versa) and he was totally on board. I think any decent man would not bat an eyelid to a perfectly reasonable ultimatum. Fidelity is another such conversation. Set out the terms and there can be no arguments if either party fails to honour the agreement.

It’s ironic and telling that you are the second poster to automatically think the list would be done alone by the woman - it didn’t even occur to me, that’s treating DH like a child!

No, you do it together. Literally. Like a project plan as your DH prob does at work.

We both initiate, input and decide what bits we will do and when.

Yes ‘put up and shutup’ comes to mind

Women have autonomy over their own decisions though. It's not their fault if a man is useless, but it is their choice to be with them and to choose to start families with them. I know men can change but most who are useless after children were useless before but women have hope that they'll grow up and change (no they offen dont). A grown man who doesn't help around the house, is disengaged with their children and is happy for their wife to take on the majority of the mental load is hugely unappealing to many, and many would know they deserve better and leave.

Exactly @SamanthaCaine I also set out and renegotiated my terms.
I’m 23 weeks preg and we’ve already been discussing who is likely to do what - for the record it’s not a ‘can you do x convo’ either, my DH is very, you’ll likely feel like x or I don’t want you doing this so soon so I’ll do all the sch runs.

I cannot believe I made a suggestion (list writing) and some automatically assumed it would be DW writing it FOR DH.

No, it’s a collective conversation where both parties discuss what needs to be done, by who and when!

It’s not a case of putting up with it. I had this with my exDH. I worked full-time and did all the housework. I don’t think he once cleaned out the fridge or cleaned the bathroom. Not once. If I left it for him it would just stay filthy. If I asked him (because he wouldn’t do it unless asked) to empty the bin, he’d shrug and say he did it last time. Or he’d do it later. And I’d say but it’s full now. And he’d say he didn’t have to do everything to my schedule and if I wanted it doing now then I could do it myself. I would complain about the lack of any housework, he would reply and say he was a good dad and he worked hard. I’d say that’s not the point I’m making. He’d say well he was upset about the lack of sex. I’d say fine, but that’s not the conversation I want to have right now. He’d say how come I was able to express what I was disappointed about and yet he wasn’t….. and round and round it would go. Tying me in verbal knots. His arguments just clever tactics to avoid discussing the issue. I spent my life bitter and angry and quite unpleasant to be with. He went to the gym twice a day. I complained. He said I was being spiteful and trying to stop him doing something he enjoyed. He said it was to stay healthy. And did I want him to die young..???? I could never ever win or even get him to discuss it in an adult rational way. Every conversation derailed and made into a horrible argument. In the end I had an affair and left him. It wasn’t my finest hour. But I had no respect left for him by that point. He has his own house now and we share the kids and the mental load and his house is very tidy and clean!!! And I always knew that the only way he would pull his weight would be if I left him.

@Chocolateship Yep. You see it here so often. Women complains about a cock lodger, ppl scream LTB then response is ‘but I’m pregnant’.

Or Stepmum has baby then suddenly realised she’s been doing all the work for his kids.

He already told you what he was. Above a few said 50:50 men suddenly changed once baby crowned - personally I’ve never seen this, I’m dubious.

I really don’t like blaming women but we aren’t passengers in this and need to empower each other to recognise that we don’t have to do it all, many of us don’t.

I worked in financial services technology - our project management office was run mainly by women, and our most successful project delivery were by women, when 95% of the division were men

Absolutely something in that imo, as there’s a learned incompetence

see also men with ‘big jobs’ who can’t function without a stellar PA / admin person (who’s usually a woman)

To make it worse these women have multiple children with their husband. If he was useless for the first one why do you expect him to be suddenly useful for the second. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. I think a lot of women are too desperate to have children and settle too easily.

Absolutely, its sad really but I have to say I get bored of hearing about it from some friends who have done exactly this- they knew what the deal was and went ahead anyway.