Page 35 | All women I know are in my situation

growli · 2023-06-25T12:17:14+00:00

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain. It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish. I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids. I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children. In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too. Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex. The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children. What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family. Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them. I realise I'm generalising

anon666 · 26/06/2023 22:19

I agree OP. My husband was a feminist, proud of my success, encouraged me. He took on some chores but never the mental load.

He's disorganised at home but strangely not at work. 🤔 That's when I realised he was prioritising his mental load for work, leaving me to pick up everything to do with family.

It's been a lifelong battle and it's like pushing water up a hill. Just when I think we're getting somewhere he reverts back to old habits.

I want to know where is this rich seam of decent husbands that other mumsnetters seem to have found? I know one or two but the vast majority are useless.

Oh and I live in London in case anyone thinks they're here....

Dogstar78 · 26/06/2023 22:21

Because I don't want to live in a shithole. I do leave it, then he will do it. Like others have said there is this culture like men are doing you a favour. When he runs off his list- I just say OK and walk off. He used to get annoyed until I explained that I can't remember the last time someone thanked me for doing housework. So I do have him in a rehabilitation programme.

People on here that honestly think there is equality in home and genuinely think they argue that are deluded. Its a social construct backed up with stats as far as the eye can see. Kid is ill- call mum, who does the doctor call- mum etc etc.

I have ADHD which is pretty limiting, but I have lots of coping mechnisms. I can't live in mess, is one of them. I have to know where everything is. Some things around the house are my coping mechanisms.

CheeseTouch · 26/06/2023 22:24

gannett · 26/06/2023 22:17

I really think more women would do themselves a favour by taking the view, apparently shared by so many men, that it doesn't need to get done. I'll guess that half of a lot of women's "mental load" can be just... let go.

There are legitimately urgent jobs and there are routine weekly jobs and then there are jobs that can be cans kicked down the road indefinitely.

And then there are jobs that are simply not to be considered tasks at all. I cannot fathom why anyone would start incorporating gifts for their in-laws as part of their mental load. I barely remember to get timely gifts for my actual DP. I have no idea when his sister's birthday is, or her husband's, or their kids.

I'm not especially proud of being a disorganised slattern and I do make the effort to get better but speaking as one - you do realise how much life admin doesn't actually matter.

I still haven't got over PLUMPING CUSHIONS from earlier in the thread. Stop plumping the bloody cushions! Or at least do it because you love it! If a man doesn't "see" that a cushion needs to be plumped, well then he's right.

It's quite strange how threads like these oscillate between desperately sad posts from women who are genuinely treated like skivvies by abhorrent men, and women who think all men are selfish because they don't plump cushions.

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I don’t know @gannett - plumping cushions sounds trivial, agreed. But my ex would NEVER lift a finger to clean or tidy anything. I stopped doing stuff and the house became filthy and untidy. It became almost unliveable. But it was a visual marker of exactly how much he disrespected me.

CheeseTouch · 26/06/2023 22:30

Hall84 · 26/06/2023 21:16

Working through the thread. On paper I'm educated, reasonable career and carry everything. I earn almost double 'D'H's wage. I do all the bedtimes, baths, night get ups except for 1.5 hrs a week. I sometimes think it'd be easier alone

I found it was easier alone, to manage my own space and have proper time off from child duties whilst he looked after them!

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:31

@SouthLondonMum22 I agree 💯 It’s such a big discussion and so worthwhile to hear everyone’s input. Hopefully, gradually, we can get past the idea that “if you don’t like it, just divorce him” and there’s an end to it. There’s no “just” when kids are involved and we do our children a disservice by not trying to dig deeper.

gannett · 26/06/2023 22:33

CheeseTouch · 26/06/2023 22:24

I don’t know @gannett - plumping cushions sounds trivial, agreed. But my ex would NEVER lift a finger to clean or tidy anything. I stopped doing stuff and the house became filthy and untidy. It became almost unliveable. But it was a visual marker of exactly how much he disrespected me.

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Yep that's what makes these threads a bit odd and at cross purposes sometimes because there clearly are some men who absolutely never lift a finger. You're never sure where on the scale a post lies.

T1Dmama · 26/06/2023 22:34

Both my brothers do the majority of the childcare. My oldest works, his wife doesn’t, yet he seems to do it all and she just enjoys being in the gym all day and being fit and healthy.
my younger brother works full time, his wife does too and they pretty much share childcare, both having days off separately to look after the children while the other is at work, both always sharing night feeds, bedtimes etc…

me and my sister haven’t been so lucky though, I married a man who, while he always worked hard, did feel that the house work, cooking and 100% of the childcare was my duty!… and that applied to when I worked, with him refusing to look after our child on ‘his day off’… so eventually rather than pay nursery out of my small wage I just gave up working and became a SAHM. (Because he didn’t want to pay childcare either & I didn’t want to work just for all my wage to pay for someone else to enjoy my baby!)
We split up last year, and even now I’m here literally a single mum, while he’s moved hundreds of miles away and has forgotten he even has a kid

gannett · 26/06/2023 22:38

anon666 · 26/06/2023 22:19

I agree OP. My husband was a feminist, proud of my success, encouraged me. He took on some chores but never the mental load.

He's disorganised at home but strangely not at work. 🤔 That's when I realised he was prioritising his mental load for work, leaving me to pick up everything to do with family.

It's been a lifelong battle and it's like pushing water up a hill. Just when I think we're getting somewhere he reverts back to old habits.

I want to know where is this rich seam of decent husbands that other mumsnetters seem to have found? I know one or two but the vast majority are useless.

Oh and I live in London in case anyone thinks they're here....

The "disorganised at home but not at work" trope is an interesting one because to me it shows how many men - even the "enlightened" ones who'd never consider themselves to fall for the alpha male bullshit - have internalised that their role is to be the provider and protector. Of course that's where their mental load goes.

Undoing that would be a start.

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:43

anon666 · 26/06/2023 22:19

I agree OP. My husband was a feminist, proud of my success, encouraged me. He took on some chores but never the mental load.

He's disorganised at home but strangely not at work. 🤔 That's when I realised he was prioritising his mental load for work, leaving me to pick up everything to do with family.

It's been a lifelong battle and it's like pushing water up a hill. Just when I think we're getting somewhere he reverts back to old habits.

I want to know where is this rich seam of decent husbands that other mumsnetters seem to have found? I know one or two but the vast majority are useless.

Oh and I live in London in case anyone thinks they're here....

😂yes, checked there, they’re definitely not in London. But where is this fertile furrow?? TBF I thought I had one for a couple of years….how wrong I was 😔

Maireas · 26/06/2023 22:44

Well, I found mine in London! Although he's not from the UK.

Yea2023 · 26/06/2023 22:45

To those struggling, have you tried listing and assigning chores?
Bot in an aggressive way just ‘oh we need to sit and work out what needs to be done re X, after dinner?’

I hope I’m not being patronising btw, but I have found that some women just do stuff and the men seem to think there’s a magic fairy about.

An example I used earlier is shopping - we have a running list we both add to then confirm before delivery.

Busy times we will sit and discuss what needs to be done, list it out/diarise it etc.

many of these men do this shit for work.

SouthLondonMum22 · 26/06/2023 22:49

Maireas · 26/06/2023 22:44

Well, I found mine in London! Although he's not from the UK.

I found mine in London too. 😂

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:49

Maireas · 26/06/2023 22:44

Well, I found mine in London! Although he's not from the UK.

Ah you outsourced from an over-seas training camp 😁

Maireas · 26/06/2023 22:50

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:49

Ah you outsourced from an over-seas training camp 😁

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😂

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 26/06/2023 22:51

ILikeToSleepALot · 25/06/2023 15:03

I actually had a recent conversation about this with a male friend who is very much the prototype of the useless husband even though he has progressive views politically and he agrees with me about feminism, etc. I asked him bluntly why doesn't he do more around the house, why is he such an ass to his wife and why is he always looking for an excuse to not be at home (work trips, trips for his hobbies etc).

His answer was that the marriage and kids thing was his wife's desire and she insisted to have it, her biological clock was ticking etc. He would've been happy to stay childfree and doesn't really see the point of reproducing. And as he sees it, if you want kids, then, once you have them, it's not fair to nag for help with them. He sees the kids as his wife's responsibility pretty much entirely, although he agrees he has a financial duty towards them. He finds them cute and funny sometimes and he would reckon he loves them but he doesn't feel strongly or fiercely towards them, and if they disappeared overnight he would be mostly fine. He thinks many of his mates feel the same.

I was pretty flabbergasted at this and now I wonder if it's true that this is a widespread POV amongst men. I wouldn't know directly as I am single and childless.

I think there is something in this TBH for quite a few men. Also, I wonder if some of these men are a bit resentful or slightly jealous of their children and feel that they take time and attention away from them spending quality time with their partner and getting their own needs met like they used to rather than seeing the ‘family unit’ they have created?

TrexTeeth · 26/06/2023 22:51

Yep my ex was abusive emotionally and financially. He's seeing our child 2 nights a week and the odd weekend since he's got his feet under another woman's table. He barely saw him at all before then.

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:51

Yea2023 · 26/06/2023 22:45

To those struggling, have you tried listing and assigning chores?
Bot in an aggressive way just ‘oh we need to sit and work out what needs to be done re X, after dinner?’

I hope I’m not being patronising btw, but I have found that some women just do stuff and the men seem to think there’s a magic fairy about.

An example I used earlier is shopping - we have a running list we both add to then confirm before delivery.

Busy times we will sit and discuss what needs to be done, list it out/diarise it etc.

many of these men do this shit for work.

Listing and assigning chores is the definition of the mental load.

Isitthathardtobekind · 26/06/2023 22:55

FindingTheFox · 25/06/2023 13:28

This is not my experience, nor that of the manjority of my friends. I know a few useless husbands/dads but they're very much the minority.

As above. Not my experience and most of my friends have very involved husbands who do lots around the house and with the children. I’m a bit at the other end and sometimes would love it if my husband chilled out a bit more with regards to house work etc

JenniferBooth · 26/06/2023 22:55

@TrexTeeth she will be doing all the work and if they split you can bet the contact will peter out

Pythacalling702 · 26/06/2023 22:56

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 20:31

No , but having children really changes the dynamic. IMO, the maternity leave/pay situation sets up a really difficult shift. Often women go from being 50/50 earners with their partners to almost non earners. If you decide to plan a second child there’s a few “wilderness” years before both children are 2yo and some level of funding kicks in. During this time full time work for one party is pretty untenable. I’ve seen relationships that look very equal and happy with “good men” take a detour to the 1950s during this period. The problem is that men and society do not value invisible work in the home. It’s so ingrained in our culture, even “the good guys” don’t see it. They’ve been at work, and so suddenly everything else is the woman’s job, and I don’t think many stop to question it, it seems so “natural”
I think, instead of 72 genders, we should be teaching kids more about household/childcare workloads and expectations in PHSE. It would be a very worthwhile exercise to split the boys and girls into two groups with flip charts to list all the jobs a woman should do and all the jobs a man should do if one stays at home with the babie(s) and the other works ft. These assumptions are formed early, largely in all innocence, absorbed from society and what is modelled in their own homes. The reality can be a nasty shock for both parties, and I think we’re letting both boys and girls down by not equipping them with the knowledge and skills to negotiate and maintain fair and equal relationships through the baby years and beyond.

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Great post TheTellTaleHeart ^^

So much is wrong in our society about the way motherhood and parenting is valued or not. And honestly I think this specific misogyny, and misogyny in general, has increased in recent years, not improved.

Macinae · 26/06/2023 22:57

gannett · 26/06/2023 22:17

I really think more women would do themselves a favour by taking the view, apparently shared by so many men, that it doesn't need to get done. I'll guess that half of a lot of women's "mental load" can be just... let go.

There are legitimately urgent jobs and there are routine weekly jobs and then there are jobs that can be cans kicked down the road indefinitely.

And then there are jobs that are simply not to be considered tasks at all. I cannot fathom why anyone would start incorporating gifts for their in-laws as part of their mental load. I barely remember to get timely gifts for my actual DP. I have no idea when his sister's birthday is, or her husband's, or their kids.

I'm not especially proud of being a disorganised slattern and I do make the effort to get better but speaking as one - you do realise how much life admin doesn't actually matter.

I still haven't got over PLUMPING CUSHIONS from earlier in the thread. Stop plumping the bloody cushions! Or at least do it because you love it! If a man doesn't "see" that a cushion needs to be plumped, well then he's right.

It's quite strange how threads like these oscillate between desperately sad posts from women who are genuinely treated like skivvies by abhorrent men, and women who think all men are selfish because they don't plump cushions.

Show quote history

Plumping cushions wouldn't be important to me but I think most women's gripes go far beyond that.

Chocochick · 26/06/2023 23:05

I agree OP and the reason why my DH and I share quite a lot (although it is never 50:50) is because I stand my ground, fight the battles and have all of the necessary uncomfortable conversations. I tell him he needs to look after the boys as I am going out, doing a class or resting and he wouldn’t complain. Left to his own devices, he’d probably do a lot less and the mental load falls overwhelmingly on me (he would forget half of it, feed them shite, etc and not even question it!). I find marriage quite unsatisfactory and dull to be honest but I also believe that no man out there will ever come close to the magical, fulfilling and deep women friendships I have so why bother?

TrexTeeth · 26/06/2023 23:06

JenniferBooth · 26/06/2023 22:55

@TrexTeeth she will be doing all the work and if they split you can bet the contact will peter out

I hope they stay together!!

Yea2023 · 26/06/2023 23:08

TheTellTaleHeart · 26/06/2023 22:51

Listing and assigning chores is the definition of the mental load.

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I mean together, not me doing it for the house - I’m not his line manager.

We list shit (discussion/together). I say I can do x,y,z, DH says he can do a,b,c.

It works for us - weekend gone we hosted a family bbq. Tues/Wed prior we had a chat to list and divvy up the shopping, cleaning, cooking.

Neither one of us took more mental load or have I missed something?

Yea2023 · 26/06/2023 23:11

JenniferBooth · 26/06/2023 22:55

@TrexTeeth she will be doing all the work and if they split you can bet the contact will peter out

The stepparent board is filled with this.

I do wonder if many of the 1st wives threw the men back as seen above, with the 2nd not realising this until the resentment/conflict/battleground has already been set.