There are two sexes…

[ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit]

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

Yes that is an interesting paper

On my previous point about being OK with someone with Y chromosome in my loos, as long as they are not a threat, of course it happens all the time and we are fine with it. Little boys. They don't have to be redefined as female to come in. We just recognise that they are not a threat and act accordingly.

He is a man though.

It's not the chromosomes per se which determine sex... it is the genes within those chromosomes which do. Hence it is possible (but extremely rare) for a woman to have XY chromosomes, and for a man to have XX chromosomes. The conditions are Swyer syndrome and De La Chapelle syndrome.

The deciding gene is SRY... if it is activated, then a male reproductive physiology develops, and if it is silent then a female reproductive system develops. A male reproductive developmental pathway is called a Wolffian system, and a female pathway is called a Müllerian system.

But... just as clown fish biology only pertains to... clown fish, the medical biology of DSDs only pertains to people diagnosed with DSDs. No political or sociological claims can be extrapolated out of such conditions into the general population to attempt to assert notions about the mutability of sex. In gonochoric species (all mammals, all birds & 98% of fish) sex is as binary as it gets.

Yes. Chromosomes make up one part of determining sex.

That is why the definition that I have seen about 'body formation' covers those very rare cases of the DSDs as you mention.

It is generally reliable that chromosomes will accurately categorise sex, but not always.

There are only two sexes. Intersex is not a third sex. It's a disorder but still either of the male or female sex.

At any given time there are around 600 men on the planet that have 2 penises. Nobody suggests that makes a case for the number of penises a man has being on a spectrum - is is accepted as an incredibly rare medical condition or mutation from which absolutely nothing can be extrapolated.

*Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · Today 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.*

CS has FATHERED a child. With HIS wife.

He is a man with DSD. Always was a man. He has a Y chromosome.

Yes.

It's actually really sad that due to being born with a fused labia and clitoris, her true sex was ignored, and Lady Colin Campbell was raised as a boy called George. What's worse, is that during puberty, as she developed breasts and her hip widened, her father forced testosterone injections on her. Her father's attitude, not to mention his behaviour is appalling.

I wish I hadn't Googled that!

I think you have tried this one enough times to realise it has become increasingly rare for MN to move a thread to the Feminist chat board if there is a poll and the OP does not wish the thread to move.

I know that you and others find these threads as irresistible as can be that you simply cannot scroll past and ignore them. And you feel compelled to attempt to either shame OPs for starting them or get them moved.

This is a discussion that I believe stemmed from current news items about a teacher who declared that there were three sexes. It is relevant as this is a concept that is being taught in our schools.

I think the poll results are rather conclusive that this is an important discussion and that the majority of posters are here for it. And we are all learning along the way.

By all means, scroll on past it or hide it.

But Caster presents as a man , so although they have continued , despite verified medical evidence, to claim to be a woman ( no doubt because they want to keep up the pretence of being an international female cheat athlete) they clearly live their life as a man. Which is what he is.

And yes, DSD is a rare condition, which is why it is a statistical puzzle about why it appears so often within the already niche population of middle distance female runners.

Not being scientific I don't think it's difficult. Caster is male, the fact that at some point he 'claimed' to be female isn't enough to 'be' female.

Women want trans women to not use their toilets, because they think its a man.

Not think, know.

However, it isnt as simple as having the trans woman using the mans toilets, because, by identifying as female, she will be at risk in those toilets.

You can't identify as female, female is a biological reality. TW, who are male, using the female toilets puts women at risk and also results in some women having to self exclude from their own toilet space. That's discrimination.

There is ZERO evidence that TW are at any risk using the male toilet facilities yet there is evidence of risk and harm to women with TW using the female facilities.

Yes. Woke nonsense

There are only two sexes.

As for what gender people choose to identify is there's male/female and Other. And I'm too old, tired and menopausal to give the slightest shit about anything happening with the Others.

Well the people who have decided my post is in the wrong place, I don’t think it is because I’m asking if my opinion reasonable or not hence the AIBU poll.

Same goes for the “ooh how original”/“not this again”

You are clearly annoyed at the thread for whatever reason…the title doesn’t mislead if you don’t like the title of a thread don’t click it? 😑

I think it’s an important subject that needs to be recognised and addressed, if you don’t then don’t involve yourself.

🤭 🤭

Love, you're the one that has embarrassed yourself here. Could not be cringing more for you.

Intersex is a misleading, outdated and offensive term as many many others on this thread have said. Hope you have realised what an arse you have made of yourself

Every single human even those with a with a difference of sexual development is either male or female.

Yes OP. There is a group of posters who have little impulse control or who expect MN to curate a board just for them. It is always the same posters.

If you thread is moved, do ask for it to be moved back. But that will remove the poll. Still, it has been an important thread with lots to learn. So thank you.

Are there any cases of human chimeras who present as male? Or are these people always female (on the pathway to produce large gametes, to use Kathleen Stock's very helpful definition).

Yes. 45X/46XY does have a spectrum of phenotypical presentation from normal male through ambiguous to normal female.

And I say "normal", obviously it's normal for the person whose body it is - there's a wide range of normal for human bodies. Typical would be a better word.

So how does one determine the sex of such a person? Is it just by phenotyping?
What gametes do they produce (if any)?

Not a doctor, I should imagine if the phenotype is typically male then they will be raised male, possibly not even diagnosed but almost certainly infertile.

If phenotypically female then the same - also possibly not diagnosed until puberty, almost always infertile.

I don't know what the investigation and decision making process will be for vey ambiguous genitalia and possibly streak gonads. Still not a third sex, probably no gametes.