There are two sexes…

[ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit]

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

They don't decide! Chromosome tests answer the question, in the very rare cases that there is a question, about a baby's sex. It's not an option, the facts aren't clear so they get tests to find out the facts. Maybe you could RTFT as it's been explained quite a few times already.

Sometimes a person must reach the age of puberty before discovering they’re intersex. Some people may not even discover that they’re intersex until adulthood, when they discover that they’re infertile. In rare instances, intersex people are only diagnosed after they have passed away and are discovered through an autopsy.

It is clearly NOT always decided at birth according to Web MD.

Indeed.

Caster is not only male. Caster is a father.

Not being able to have what you want is NOT the same as discrimination
Can we have this on a T-shirt please?
And among young teens/preteens not being cis is absolutely a trend for many.

We're trying to have a grown up discussion on here.

There's no gotcha to my post. I'm asking for people's opinions.

Genuine discussion exists, if you let it.

In response to your opinion, do you think gender is a social construct then, if these other genders were created by humans separate from sex?

Also, I don't think the people whom you refer to see themselves how you do. They are not simply gay men and women. Do you think they are wrong about themselves?

Totally agree.

Im not intersex so I don't know how they decide. I guess they have to choose one or the other. I know it is a medical condition. If that isn't based on how they feel about what sex they are ive no idea.

Have you ever heard of genetic testing? Testing chromosomes? That's what they do. And everyone who has a DSD (no one uses the word intersex any more) is either male or female: no need to choose. Science tells them which.

Can't say I have really had any reason to think about it.

Not always [read my post above] According to Web MD. Some don't even know.

Only 2 sexes and you CANNOT change it.

I can't believe 6% of mumsnetters think there are more than 2 sexes - probably the poll being gamed 🤣

'Intersex' stopped being a thing when we learned more about foetal development and chromosomes - and when we stopped displaying people with genetic or medical conditions as 'curiosities' at fairs 😬 Very outdated terminology.

In response to your opinion, do you think gender is a social construct then, if these other genders were created by humans separate from sex?

Yes, of course gender is a social construct. It changes. Sex is biological and immutable and it doesn't change.

Also, I don't think the people whom you refer to see themselves how you do. They are not simply gay men and women. Do you think they are wrong about themselves?

I think we all grow up in societies that shape and pressure us to behave and think in certain ways that we are all too often blind to. I think when people grow up in a society that doesn't tolerate, say, effeminacy in men, or same-sex attraction, they find work-arounds. And that includes third categories, dressing up (look up molly houses) and so on.

But behind all the gender constructs and expectations, there are still two sexes, male and female. You are either male or female, down to almost every cell in your body. Your chromosomes don't lie.

Bloody hell, it doesn't matter how many times it's explained...

I really struggle to believe this is accurate now in the developed world, though I can believe it would have been in the past when medicine was less advanced, or in places now with poor healthcare. People with DSDs are very rare, a handful a year. Then the number of those handful who have genitals which are not just ambiguous but pass so well as those of the opposite sex that they are not investigated must be miniscule. Plus some DSDs have a lot of other health issues involved with them. It just doesn't seem likely.

It's the programming, it takes ages to haul someone out of a cult.

But not knowing what happens doesn't prevent them from telling us what happens...

Christ, I can’t believe I’ve got to page 16 of this thread and there are still people rocking up talking about “intersex” and Caster Semenyas “vagina” 🤦🏻‍♀️ FFS are you not reading anything anyone else has written?

Even if DSDs did result in three sexes, which they don’t, it still wouldn’t describe trans people, who overwhelmingly do not have a DSD, so I really can’t see why it comes into the debate, apart from deliberate obfuscation and misdirection.

Caster is not only male. Caster is a father.

Well, how was that achieved? One poster insists that he has a vagina!

There are probably some elderly people who never did find out that they had a DSD. Before genetic testing it might have been possible, but now there are all sorts of reasons why testing might be called for, eg lack of periods /breasts in a person considered as a female at birth. So, a person would really have to be getting on a bit to not know.

Completely agree OP. Or to put it another way if you have any Y chromosome you are male, no Y chromosome you are female. It is that simple and how you identify, dress or feel is immaterial to that fact.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES DSD MEAN?

No need to shout, why not just Google?
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Did you entirely miss any biology lessons? Or did you never learn how you came to be born?

Thank you, here is me thinking it's another inane Mumsnet acronym that starts with darling.

Another one missed the birds and bees talk. It’s very contagious on here. There are only two sexes. Not three.