There are two sexes…

[ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit]

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

I agree.
And that might be one of the reasons young people think they are trans. They dont conform with whatever it is they think should be the norm for their sex, and, as such, believe they must be the opposite sex.

Which is why I also think that any gender affirming care must come with a heavy dose of psychological help, before any medical treatment starts (particularly in a young age!)

However, I do know fully grown adults who do believe they are in the wrong body. I dont necessarily understand how that happens, but it does, and those people deserve to be treated with respect and to not leave in fear.

Seriously? Where are you getting this stuff?

Caster Semenya has a vagina. She was brought up as female. She is actually a very rare example of a person born intersex.
Her treatment by various sporting authorities and judgement from the ignorant public has been truly shocking.

But what about societies where there's is a recognised third or more gender? For example in South Asia, or in Native American cultures? It's not binary everywhere and never has been.

Hejira? Fa'aafafine? That's those traditional society's solutions to homosexuality, in particular the solution for swishy camp men who can't do full-on masculinity. They can't be allowed to be men, so their societies created new categories. The men are still XY and male, the women are still XX and female. It's binary. It always has been. Why are you so invested in denying science?

Other cultures have other solutions. In Iran being lesbian or gay is tolerated as long as one of the same-sex couple has surgery/ hormones to create a superficial approximation of being a straight couple.

People have already tried to pull DSDs into the argument. Please don't start trying to claim homosexuality as some kind of 'gotcha'.

FFS sex is not a feeling. Everyone who has ever existed on this planet is either male or female, including those with DSDs.

@ASGIRC

"A trans person is discrimitated against.

Here in this very thread you see that.

The biggest thing being toilet use (I dont want to get into it, Im just citing it as an example).

Women want trans women to not use their toilets, because they think its a man.
However, it isnt as simple as having the trans woman using the mans toilets, because, by identifying as female, she will be at risk in those toilets.

So no, there isnt protection.

Discrimination is real (in many forms, not just against trans people!) and it is disengenuous to pretend otherwise."

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I didn't say trans people don't face discrimination.
I didn't say Gay people don't face discrimination
I didn't say women don't face discrimination

I DID say that they are all protected in law.

You said that the trans community are facing the same problems are Gay people 30 years ago. I said they weren't because trans have legal protection and can legally marry unlike the Gay community 30 years ago.

I also said, very importantly, that the GAY community never demanded anything that affected other protected groups rights.

I don't want to get into the toilet argument because it's not a good one and to my memory trans women have always used women's toilets. The toilet issue is the fact women's toilets are becoming a thing of the past with introduction of gender neutral toilets where dignity and privacy is being eroded.
Are you aware around 21% of school's do not have single sex toilets and girls are, (amongst other things) pleading for the privacy and dignity of changing sanitary wear away from boys?

It's the fight for trans women self ID ing into women's prisons.

It's the right for children at school to be able to play sport and change in sex separated changing rooms and not be forced to undress in front of males.

This is NOT about trans women using women's loos!

@MoirasSaggyBundles I haven't heard of DSD as a term. Thanks for explaining that

I just goggled so it must be correct that it is estimated 1.7% of the population have intersex trait and approx 0.5% have clinically identifiable sexual or reproductive organs

Seriously MN, we need a RTFT emoji.

No, people with intersex conditions, of which there are about 16, are either male or female with an intersex condition. They are not a different separate sex. Caster semenya is a man who lives as a man and who has undescended testicles and a propensity for cheating.

Nope.

'Semenya is an intersex woman,[8] with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency,[9]assigned female at birth,[10] with XY chromosomes and natural heterogametictestosterone level'

Caster is male.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase_2_deficiency

Yet another person who appears incapable of RTFT

I've not got intimate knowledge but I don't believe Semenya has an actual vagina, just born with ambiguous genitals which isn't the same thing. Semenya has a wife and has fathered a child. They are male, they live as a man in every part of their life except on the sports field

No, Caster Semenya has a pseudo vagina, which is a penis that didn't develop in the womb. What it looks like is neither here nor there, it does not have the function of a vagina. Caster has internal testes and XY chromosomes. Nobody with a Y chromosome is female. CS was not brought up as a female, doesn't live as a female and has fathered children naturally. CS and CS's coaches knew exactly what. they were doing. CS has been able to compete as a woman and destroyed the medal hopes of biological women. CS has been treated more than fairly, they have been given special treatment in fact.

Can I just confirm that the 6% who disagree with the op are using these two arguments:

1: But Intersex [sic]
2: But Caster Semenya

I may have missed it but are there any others? Clown fish perhaps?

shatteredmum1 · Today 17:11

Caster Semenya has a vagina. She was brought up as female.

Neither of those are true! Semanya has a micropenis, which became apparent at puberty. CS grew up playing football with boys and wasn't socialized as a girl at all.

"Her treatment by various sporting authorities and judgement from the ignorant public has been truly shocking"

The irony...

As a female child I grew up feeling different.
I did not like dresses, didn't like pretty things, didn't want to be a princess, didn't like pink.
I preferred to dig in the garden, get my hands dirty and help my dad fix his car.

I used to think I was odd and different, but I shudder to think what may have happened if the trans community had influence over me as a kid.

I may have been subject to drug therapy, genital mutilation to help "fix" me.
I am now a woman - an adult female, I have a male partner and children.
I still like digging in the garden and fixing mucky things.

The trans community are deepening unhelpful gender stereotypes when they " transition".
Men cannot become women. Nor do they even have a concept of how it feels to be a woman.

Dont be so literal. Honestly. Im not intersex so I don't know how they decide. I guess they have to choose one or the other. I know it is a medical condition. If that isn't based on how they feel about what sex they are ive no idea. Maybe the parents decide.

Caster Semenya is male. Caster Semenya knows full well he's a male. What is shocking to me is that he was allowed to carrying on stealing medals and records from women for so long, when all involved knew he was a male. But hey what do the actual women matter, as long as Caster was alright?

I think that when a baby is born without clear genitals, the healthcare professionals and parents decide whether male or female is the closest fit and that sex is recirded

FFS, this is the 21st century. In the exceptionally rare case when a baby's sex isn't immediately clear, they do a chromosome test and then record the correct sex. The closest fit? Give me strength!

Intersex is a disorder of sexual development. We are sexually dimorophic - the extremely tiny proportion of the population who have an intersex condition, have it because something went wrong in their normal sexual development into one of two sex categories: male, or female.

And this is your semi-regular reminder that intersex people generally don't want to be part of pride, they don't want to wave their very own flag, and they most definitely don't want to be held up as examples to support the assertion that you can be mentally one sex and physically the other. They want to be left the F alone.

I always thought it was decided later on though. Ive no idea. No need to be so aggressive.

People don't know what happens as it is rare. Why would they?

Women want trans women to not use their toilets, because they think its a man. However, it isnt as simple as having the trans woman using the mans toilets, because, by identifying as female, she will be at risk in those toilets

a) Transwomen ARE men

b) Men should use men's toilets and other facilities relating to men, because they ARE men. - and don't talk rubbish- they aren't at risk. Why would they be?

c) If TW fear men and don't want to share toilets with them, how do you think women feel?

d) If TW fear men, then they should address male violence against them. Women are not a shield for men who want to wear a dress.