There are two sexes…

[ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit]

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

It's called intersex and is a medical condition. A person may have gentals of both sexes and they are assigned a sex. And will probably have surgery.

I'm still pondering a potential world in which 10% of people (the proportion who are left-handed) are some form of third intermediate sex. That would be a hell of an interesting dating scene.

Absolutely.

Thanks for your reply.

This 30-something is close to many different women who do and don't conform to the usual stereotypes in all different ways. But still, being called a woman feels a bit off. Perhaps it's just being put in a box, whichever box, full of other people's preconceived notions, that is a problem.

No. Seriously, no.

That is uninformed, insulting and utterly wrong

Away with you!

This.

'Woman' isn't a feeling I have, it's a biological fact which in no way determines my interests, clothing etc etc. Just like being blue eyed or having size 6 feet - I don't question whether I feel blue eyed, or what being blue eyed means, I don't identify as blue eyed, it's just a fact which has no bearing on my interests or preferences.

The term intersex is outdated. The correct term is DSD.

And ‘intersex’ people are still either male or female. In rare case where their sex isn’t clear they will be tested to find out what sex they are. They are certainly not ‘assigned’ (who would even make that decision anyway) a sex.

@Viviennemary please read the thread. Intersex is a term no longer used and is considered both misleading and offensive. cf mongol, cretin or idiot.

And they really don't "have genitals of both sexes". (I once saw some interesting weird porn-adjacent Japanese art with something like that in it, it was wild beside the point).

Well, the changes being made in schools, legislation, single sex spaces, services and sports is totally out of proportion for that tiny minority, for a start.

Why should everyone be forced to acquiesce to an ideology that makes no sense?

The post I responded to said you're either XX or XY. Not so. You can be XXXY or XYY.

Or, as in Swyer syndrome, you can be XY but have female genitalia. i.e. the genotype and phenotype don't match.
People would like it to be very simple. But it's a bit more complicated.

yes I do how the fk do you know who i know. one was a work colleagues child and the other my neighbours neice. why are people being so nasty and arsey on this thread? yes true these babies do turn out to be either male or female after investigation but its not always apparent at birth which sex they are until then.

RTFT. Honestly. You're just wrong. And offensive. And also wrong.

I answered that further up in my comment.

Um, men with XXY chromosomes are still XY. They just have an extra chromosome.

^This a million times over! I am so bloody sick of this! It is incredibly offensive and othering to people with VSDs (I have one close to me). Struggling not to write something very rude here 😡 😡 😡

There are two sexes and two gametes.

But they are still either male or female and there are still only two sexes. The fact that it might not have been obvious straight away does not change that.

I’m not intersex, but I am very much into sex. Is that different? ;)

But you didn't say it's not always apparent at birth but gets investigated, you said something like 'one was found to have more male characteristics and one more female', that's not the same thing. There isn't a sliding scale of male and female characteristics, we're all one or the other.

Men's shirts, short skirts?
Colour my hair, do what I dare?

I'm going to say it again. The number of people born with both male and female sex organs is infinitesimally small. It's quite possibly the case that a very small penis( a micro penis) could be mistaken for a large clitoris or vice versa. It's possible that some other DSD might give the initial appearance of one sex but actually be wrong. There are a few babies born every year where it's not possible to tell initially what sex that baby is. We are now able to check by tests so parents don't get to choose what sex the baby is. And as I understand it, doctors don't start to perform surgery anymore until the child is older, if surgery is required.

No.

Begsthequestion · Today 16:11

Thanks for replying.

Clothing is a complicated one for me. I definitely don't want to be/feel like I am a man. I feel more female if I have to choose. But the idea of "being a woman" confuses me.

I feel very comfortable in masculine clothing most days (not just unfeminine/unisex clothing like jeans and t-shirts), like masculine cut shirts, trousers, jewellery etc. And not just physically comfortable, but more like myself. I usually wear mascara but I was basically raised to do that and feel kind of ugly without it.

Occasionally I'm ok with dressing in feminine clothing (but never heels) but it's an unpredictable thing, which is why I can rarely choose my outfit the night before an event because idk how I will feel when I get up in the morning. Putting on a dress or a woman's-cut top feels really weird sometimes, quite wrong.

I know clothing is just surface but as social animals it's how we present ourselves to each other and the world, and it seems to matter.

Can anyone else relate?

Yes, I can relate strongly. I've never enjoyed the whole thing of dressing up, dresses, floaty things, heels, shaving my legs, hair, make-up — hate it. Always preferred a more tailored, minimal look. I've also never wanted to play the game of attracting the male gaze. I discovered feminism in my teens and could see very clearly how women were pressured by society and other women to perform femininity to attract men.

I wear some items of men's clothing (particularly boots) because they're better made and last longer than women's clothing. I don't do heels or skirts or flowery patterns. I love a trouser suit, a waistcoat and boots. Perhaps you don't see it if you live in the centre of a city, but the world is full of women who live in walking gear or outdoors gear, trainers, DMs etc when they can.

Swyer individuals look like girls externally and will be raised as such because the syndrome may often not even be detected until puberty. But they will not develop into women or even people who look like woman without treatment, as they have no gonads. In these (incredibly rare) cases, it is obviously kindest and best to treat them at puberty and let them present as and think of themselves as women. They are not really though. They are not some form of third sex either.

You're still not getting it for this particular case though

There are some DSDs that do involve mutations in the gene that codes for the testosterone receptor, which can affect testosterone binding - to varying degrees between - its completely the wrong shape and it won't bind at all right through to a slightly lowered affinity. But in 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency is casued by a mutation in the gene that codes for an enzyme that converts testosterone (T) to 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
DHT exerts its effects during development of the external genitalia in the male foetus (only, not involved in female fotus sexual differentation in this way). So if your gene that codes for the enzyme is wrong (has a mutation), the enzyme will be the wrong shape and so, again, you will get a range of effects between - completely the wrong shape so doesnt work at all and the foetus doesnt get any DHT right through to doesn't work quite as well in converting T to DHT - which is why developemnt of the external genitalia of males with 5ARD DSD can range from looks completely normal male right thorugh to looks much more female (and nobody knows where CS is on that scale apart from them and their doctors). "5αR2D is a result of impaired 5αR2 activity resulting in decreased DHT levels. This defect results in a spectrum of phenotypes including overt genital ambiguity, hypospadias, and micropenis."

BUT, and I cannot stress this enough, "Affected males still develop typical masculine features at puberty (deep voice, facial hair, muscle bulk) since most aspects of pubertal virilization are driven by testosterone, not DHT." And they dont have anything genticlaly wrong with their testosterone production or testosteron ereceptors, in thsis particular DSD. So CS and other with this particular DSD went through a normal male puberty - with all the concurrent effects on genital growth, sperm production, heart capacity, extreme muscle bulking, increased blood and lung capacity etc etc - becasue they have normal testes which do a decond round of testosterone prodcution whcihc doesnt rely on the precursor DHT, like it does in the womb.

And yes I am being pedantic but it's because I'm absolutely sick of a lack of understanding of science and medicine being used to spread all kinds of bollocks. Like: people with DSDs are intersex or a third sex (make up your mind), like males can become women. Like females aren't women. Like humans can change sex. Like Caster Semenya is "a woman with high testosterone" etc etc etc.

I get what you're saying. Female sexed bodies are female.

However, the idea of what a woman is, how she acts, what she is expected to do and not do, know, work as, live as, even how young she can be, etc. has changed dramatically over the centuries.

This suggests being a "woman" is a social construct. It's not fixed and depends on how different societies define it, historically and globally.