To think that people like anti-abortionist Kristan Hawkins are the enemy of women and feminism everywhere

[Purplefoxes]

Maybe extreme but..I was just reading this BBC article (link below) on Kristan Hawkins and it made my blood boil as I am pro choice. She is the woman from the US organisation Students for Life of America and has been instrumental in over turning Roe v Wade. She is now on the back of this 'success' campaigning for total abortion ban across America . The overturning of Roe V Wade is a decision which will likely result in the death or debilitation of many pregnant women who either cannot access much needed abortions for health reasons or try to access back street illegal abortions or could even commit suicide as a result. Not to mention there could be many unwanted children dumped into the care system or brought up in abusive environments. I just cannot fathom why anyone, let alone a woman would do this. I'm sure if it was one of her kids who was pregnant and needed a medical abortion to save their life she'd change her tune! How blinkered does a person have to be to not think of the impact of banning abortion on both women and children! And how has such medieval policy been allowed to happen in modern day America..could this happen in the UK?! Are we losing our rights as women? When did the life of a fetus become more important than the life of its mother?

BBC article

As an argument this makes no sense whatsoever and I can't for the life of me understand how it became so wildly used when advocating for pro choice politics.
Your baby's body is not your body. It might depend on your body for survival, at least until viability point, yes. But it's most definitely a separate entity to you.

Same as with the fetus/baby argument, burying you head in the sand with weak rationalisations won't help anything.

@Purplefoxes thank you ❤
I actually had my ectopic slap bang in the roe vs wade debate and I saw lots of things telling me that my foetus was in pain etc and that I should simply request the doctors popped them into my uterus.
I think it was maybe ohio who tried to have that as a legal guideline.

Now, I'm no scientist, not really a full shilling half the time, but surely, someone who is helping write proposed laws on women's body should at least have attended one or 2 biology classes?

The problem I'm struggling with nowadays is seeing women in America be born with less rights to their bodies than their nanas had, and it terrifies me.

American health care is diabolical. I joined a group on FB many moons back for a hyperemesis support group and a young woman had gotten pregnant via IVF with twins, much much wanted babies. She had no money left to continue treatment and hyperemesis wasn't covered in her insurance, so her option was either dehydrate to death whilst not working so potentially losing her home or terminate her much wanted pregancy and she chose termination.

In her situation I would have, we actually had the same due date so I think of her often. American women seem massively disenfranchised to me, additionally, she was a woman of colour, maybe not relevant but I've seen awful stats about how women of colour are affected with pregancy and it makes me want to give the planet a big shake until it sorts its self out.

This. Women will have abortions, the only question is whether they will be safe and legal or unsafe and illegal. But don't kid yourself you are 'saving babies', because abortions will happen either way. What you are doing, all you are doing, by trying to restrict legal abortions, is punishing women. And I'm pretty sure that for some people, that is very much the point.

I know... it makes no sense.. I think it's only the pro life Catholics that are, and they are against pretty much everything feminist or sexual or involving freedom of thought.

Yes @MrsLully its in my body, and no one should get a say over who gets to be in my body, except for me. You don’t understand that, I’m really not sure what else there is to say.

Power trip.

@AnorLondo do you even know what Fetus mean? It's the latin word for baby. You are not using the word Baby because the reality of what happens during an abortion is too much to stomach when you fully acknowledge that what's happening is that you are ending a human life.
Call it a dinglehopper for all I care, distancing yourself from the reality of the procedure is cowardly and hypocritical.

Did the baby choose to be there?

What is lacking here is not sense, but reading comprehension. No, illegal abortion statistics weren’t recorded in the way legal abortion statistics are today, they were still able to make estimates however based on the data they did have available (hospitalizations, for example).

I didn’t expect you to take my word for it, hence why I provided proof. The answer as to how it’s recorded is right there in the study if you bother to read it.

I notice you didn’t bother to answer my question as to what number of dead and injured women is acceptable for you?

Why does that matter?

It’s not a sentient being at that point - it didn’t choose to be anywhere. Nor will it be aware if a woman chooses to end the pregnancy…

People like that will always have a reason why the abortion they/ their loved one needs is therapeutic and medically necessary. They'd be on the first plane to a country that has legal safe terminations if it was their teen DD. It's all other abortions they want to ban.

Saw enough of her ilk in the Repeal the 8th debates here in Ireland. Always the double standards.

Just like Mother Teresa was on the first fucking plane out of Calcutta when her health failed her to avail of the best, expensive private medical care in the world while she had a policy of refusing her own patients basic antibiotics and pain relief, instead insisting that their suffering brought them closer to god.

Fucking hell. The only one trying to make themselves feel better here is you apparently, keen as you are to convince yourself that anyone that doesn’t share your opinion is either misguided or deliberately fooling themselves.

I don’t need to pretend or ‘distance myself’ from anything. If I didn’t have an abortion I’d have a baby. I didn’t want a baby though, I did want an abortion.

FFS.

Nobody (at least, nobody sane) wants to "kill babies" and yes, I wouldn't argue against greater access to contraception and education to prevent the need for abortions, of course not.

But the fact is access to safe abortion is absolutely essential as a measure of last resort, or even first resort if the woman so feels like. The alternative is many, many more desperate women dying because of unsafe, illegal abortion.

Banning abortion does not and will not stop abortion from happening, it just makes it more traumatic and vastly more dangerous, but as ever anti-choicers don't give a fuck about that.

True. It’s not like it chooses to be born either.

Oh dear.

This is "how would you feel if you were an abortion" level 🤣

I often wonder if forced birthers have houses packed full of adopted children. (They don't).

If every spare penny they have goes to helping actual alive children (it doesn't).

I wonder what could be the purpose of trying to control the choices other women make.

Think you are the one with reading incomprehension. I said in my post that I couldn't read your link so can't check that.
As I said abortions have gone up from c. 20k per annum just AFTER abortion was decriminalised to c. 220k per annum now, that is in no way related to the population increase (hasn't gone up 11 times, it hasn't even doubled since then).

The woman is vile, and either too stupid or too power crazed to realise the most basic fact ever about this is....every woman's situation is different.

A 25 year old having an abortion because it will not fit well with career plans and she isn't ready is 100% different from a 13 year old raped by a pedophilic family member. Both are completely different to a woman's situation who would die if the pregnancy continues, and all three are different from a baby that would be born with terrible disabilities that would make their life wholly painful, miserable and short.

I'm not judging or comparing any of them, just staring the obvious, that each situation is remarkably different and you can't throw a black and white answer at this. It's lazy and ignorant.

She's playing God. Revolting.

What the fuck is a dinglehopper? Is that Latin too since you seem to be an expert in the language? Whatever it is it doesn't sound as bad as calling someone cowardly or hypocritical.

I call it a foetus because that's what it is. I can perfectly stomach what happens during an abortion.

Not can you please tell me exactly how being pro-choice leads to women not getting healthcare for miscarriages or abuse?

But that's not what Kristan's 'army' is offering

They are a single issue campaign group with no alternatives to not having abortions.

No sex education, regardless of how sensible it is, no contraception, regardless of who needs it, no support for pregnant women, no support for labouring women and no support for new mothers and babies.

There is a massive health crisis in the USA, maternal morbidity and mortality is appalling and this creature is campaigning to increase the physical and financial burden on women and healthcare.

There's lots of reasons for that - I should expect the most likely one is that it's easier to get an abortion earlier which is a huge positive.

My mum thought she was pregnant in the mid 1970s. No home pregnancy tests so she had to visit the GP with toddler db in tow to arrange a test. She was sick with dread because, for many reasons, it would have been a very, very bad time for her to have had another pregnancy. Although abortion was legal in the UK it was not possible to actually get one in Scotland so she would have had to travel to Leeds.

It would have been almost impossible for her to have arranged childcare and found the money to travel so she would have had to go through with the pregnancy and possibly have left us motherless. Luckly she wasn't pregnant.

I don't know how easy it was for women to actually get an abortion in the years after the Act was passed - in some parts of Scotland it's still impossible to get one after 14 weeks and you have to travel. Just because the law says you can have one without being prosecuted doesn't mean you can in practice.

Preborn children deserve to live.

@QueenofKattegat oh yeah, I often wonder if the pro abortion on demand crowd just go around killing people who inconvenience them, as once you acknowledge the biological reality of abortion the rest of the arguments would apply for both cases really. So funny 🤣

Also, what a cheap cop out. Apparently somebody's worry about the ability of human life's being ended on demand falls flat if they somehow don't have a house full of adopted children. Of course!

Really interested to know if any of the "pro-life" (I prefer anti-choice myself) advocates on here can explain how continuing a non-viable pregnancy that was a risk to my life counts as pro-life?

Personally I don't think viability matters (and have also had an abortion of a potentially viable foetus earlier in life), but if even a cluster of cells is a baby and therefore cannot be aborted was I just supposed to die? Seems like that would have been significantly less pro-life for both me and my subsequent successful pregnancy...

Also @whumpthereitis I think I'd probably vote for you as Prime Minister

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it can cost hundreds of thousands just to have a baby in an American hospital compared to a prescription of a couple of pills.