UK children shorter than EU children

[Popcorn121]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/21/children-raised-under-uk-austerity-shorter-than-european-peers-study

I listened to James O’Brien on LBC today talking about the above, the conversation was all about UK poor diet and parents being blamed for not feeding their children well (due to austerity). But AIBU to think that height is mostly determined by genetics? Yet this isn’t mentioned, maybe people in the UK are more likely to be shorter due to genetics? I’m shorter and ex is on the shorter side, even though I feed my kids fruit and veg and healthy protein like salmon and chicken they are still going to be short. I know a lot of families like this.

The US has had more recent immigration from country that are shorter though. Also for some reason in the US, shorter women have more children. In the Netherlands taller men have more children. I suspect these height differences are more genetic then diet. I think the Netherland children are starting to get smaller too now though. There is a limit to how tall a population can grow. Also populations go through phases of being taller then getting shorter. I don’t see why getting shorter is always seen as a bad thing ( ie it must be poverty induced bad diet) The smallest people I know seem to have lived the longest.

@greenacrylicpaint I’m Chinese and DH is English. Our DS is 6ft 5, his Dad is 6ft 2, I’m 5ft 4 and tall in my family, my sister is 4ft 11. So probably mainly genetics but honestly the variety of food he has access to due to our financial situation being good has always been fine.

Two of his white friends who are brothers are really short around my height. They have a 4ft 11 Mum and a 6ft 1 Dad the Mums genes have just been dominant. They grumble about this, they are from a very well off family and no food issues there.

Really looking at the data linked to the socio economic group of the data sets would be the most useful stat.

Sorry was interrupted, but I don’t believe these results can be explained away by immigration into uk.

If kids are becoming shorter due to lack of nutrition then it needs sorting.

Children aren't becoming shorter. They're just less tall relative to some of their European peers compared to a few decades ago.

UK CHILDREN WERE 'EU CHILDREN' UNTIL 2016. Do you mean children from other European countries, @Popcorn121?

If kids are becoming shorter due to lack of nutrition then it needs sorting
The amount of kids and families living in poverty in this country needs sorting wether it is making them shorter or not, it's a disgrace. People should be in uproar about that just because it's wrong to let families live like that.

In the studies I read, the link is not related to day to day diets as some seem to be misunderstanding it as, It needs to be severe cases of lack of nutrition.
Also, It shows that kids in the UK are getting taller, just that the European kids are getting taller than that.

And cheese. Why can’t British kids just eat proper cheese, not cheese strings, or dairy Lea triangles or any other of those over processed cheese abominations. Give them proper cheese!

From the Guardian article:

In 1985, British boys and girls .... were on average 111.4cm and 111cm tall respectively.

Now, ... the average [British] five-year-old boy measuring 112.5cm and the average girl, 111.7cm.

So the average 5 year old in Britain is now taller than they were 40 years ago according to the Guardian.

"This is a lot to do with dairy or, I suspect, what's in our dairy as a result of hormones and medications given to cattle."

Sigh. As a PP pointed out, hormonal growth promotors have been banned in all food producing animals in the EU since the early 80s.

Well that's a lie. My daughters 7 and is as tall as a 10 year old! All down to genetics.

Where is this graph from, it wasn't in the Guardian. But it's worth looking at the Y axis. It doesn't start at 0 so it suggests the differences are much bigger than they actually are. There seems to be less than a cm variation in the height of British children over time.

Overweight children.

Mine had full day milk until we discovered she was intolerant.

It is about the "average" child in the UK not just your or my child.

Plus the age that you should be looking at is 5 before genetics make a lot of difference.

Yep as you are looking at 5 year olds who the NHS recommends should have had multivitamins until then.

Plus the age that you should be looking at is 5 before genetics make a lot of difference

Your genetic makeup forms you, im just wondering at what age you think genetics start to "make a difference" to a child ?

Height is a dominant gene. Therefore a population in an area will tend to grow taller over time. I also agree with posters that say diet makes a significant difference in height only if it approaches starvation or severe malnutrition levels. A person can reach their full genetic height potential on junk food.

Therefore, if the UK popuplation is falling behind other EU countries in the rate of increase of height, that would (my speculation) be due to shorter genes entering the gene pool, This in turn points to UK receiving more migrants from countries with shorter populations.

Yes. But they have genetically different heights. And that's relevant too.

I am absolutely not 'blaming immigrants' for anything. I am saying there is a shifting demographic pattern occurring at some speed. This is a neutral thing - it is neither good not bad - but it is observable.

The UK and the Netherlands have significant shared history and genealogy - but changing patterns of migration for both countries mean there is a divergent genetic pattern happening.

I think the comment about socioeconomics is relevant with regards to immigration too. Why? Because we know recent immigrants are more likely to be lower status economically.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/people-living-in-deprived-neighbourhoods/latest

See the percentage of people living in the most deprived 10% of neighbourhoods by ethnicity:

What REALLY sticks out is over 31% of people of Pakistani ethnicity live in these neighborhoods and over 19% of Bangladeshi ethnicity. This compares to 9% of White British.

Or another figure from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation:
The income poverty rate varies substantially between ethnic groups: Bangladeshis (65%),

Pakistanis (55%) and black Africans (45%) have the highest rates; black Caribbeans (30%),

Indians (25%), white Other (25%) and white British (20%) have the lowest rates.

So we have a population which genetically looks predisposed to being shorter also living in the most deprived areas and rated at the most at risk of poverty. So they are less likely to reach their maximum height potential which is shorter to begin with.

Also curiosly comments about milk consumption may also have some merit. The Netherlands has one of the heightest levels of milk consumption per person in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita

And that will affect the most deprived areas first.

My 2 obviously missed the austerity edict to not grow both are 6ft4 + and under 16!!

Give me some of this austerity please

Austerity and poverty

Similar to age of death declining in the UK since 2010.

You are presumably female?

Men and women have different body proportions. A man and woman of the same height the woman will have longer legs and shorter torso, the man will have a longer torso and shorter legs.

I don't know why but I know it's true its one of the differences in men's and ladies bikes.

Not surprising, look at the crap most kids eat. So much processed food.

Ha ha, my thoughts exactly! 😅

As I understand it, nutrition has a huge amount to do with it. The height issue is mentioned in Chris van Tulleken's new book, Ultra-Processed People, which is about how most of the UK population's diet is heavily processed - particularly for people with lower incomes.

That's not true.

Median age of death in 2010. Men 82
Women 85

Median age of death in 2019. Men 83.1
Women 86.4

Figures dropped in 2020 because of covid.

From ONS website

Life expectancy has also risen year on year - obviously not affected by covid.