UK children shorter than EU children

[Popcorn121]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/21/children-raised-under-uk-austerity-shorter-than-european-peers-study

I listened to James O’Brien on LBC today talking about the above, the conversation was all about UK poor diet and parents being blamed for not feeding their children well (due to austerity). But AIBU to think that height is mostly determined by genetics? Yet this isn’t mentioned, maybe people in the UK are more likely to be shorter due to genetics? I’m shorter and ex is on the shorter side, even though I feed my kids fruit and veg and healthy protein like salmon and chicken they are still going to be short. I know a lot of families like this.

Has it? Almost every man I know in my age range (28) is 5'11+.

I know tonnes of tall women too.

But most people over say 45 seem to be quite short comparatively

The vast majority of middle-class people are not eschewing them, but a minority are eating less.

And that's ok. It's ok for people to be a bit shorter because they're no longer eating large quantities of meat, way more than humans evolved to eat.

Average height hasn't dropped at all, let alone significantly. That poster is talking bollocks.

Average height has INCREASED, just at a slower rate than some other countries, meaning UK is lower in the height "league tables" than it was.

"Boys have fallen from 28th tallest in the world, with an average height of 176.4cm in 1985, to 39th in 2019, with an average height of 178.2cm. Meanwhile, 19-year-old girls have dropped from 42nd place, with an average height of 162.7cm, to 49th, measuring at 163.9cm."

Dd will be furious to learn this isn't necessarily genetic. She'd like to be a jockey and to be able to ride ponies as an adult. Was always a really small child but I've fed her very well and she has a really varied diet due to be unfussy. Should have fed her crap instead 😆

Nutrition definitely makes a difference. My DM was born in post war England and lived there til she was nine. She would talk about the poor food she had as a child like sugar sandwiches because there was nothing else which used to hide in the garden because she hated them.
Her family then moved to Australia where her two sisters were born. Much better food available for them as young children. DM was 5'4", my aunties are 6'0" and 5'11".
I grew up in 80s England and I'm 5'10".

Average has no relation to your anecdote though. That's not how averages work...

I’d imagine the move away from dairy is a factor. Mind you my eldest Dd is 15 and 5’7.5” and I’m5’4” so I don’t know we are following the pattern.

Yes, someone will be along in a minute to say "We've had enough of experts."
I love the posters who've decided they know better than Professor Tim Cole, an expert in child growth rates at the Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health, University College London and the Team at Imperial. I'm sure it's never occurred to them to take immigration into account. 🙄

Ikr, this thread is revealing a worryingly lack of knowledge about how statistics work.

This study was also reported in the Daily Mail and The Times:

British five-year-olds are on average seven centimetres shorter than their Dutch counterparts | Daily Mail Online

British five-year-olds up to 7cm shorter than western peers (thetimes.co.uk)

Parenting brings with it so much guilt. My DS is really small at 13 despite the height of me and his dad suggesting he should be a lot taller. Due to go to hospital for investigations soon. I don't feel like I've fed him terribly but maybe I did and it's poor nutrition that's caused this. He certainly hasn't had huge amounts of dairy for years.Won't eat butter, yogurt or cheese (unless melted!) and has semi skimmed when he does have milk. He's very skinny compared to his friends. Feeling rubbish after reading this.

Alas I am evidence of this 😂

Genetics are the same in every country! Don't take it personally. They're talking about the average height not the height of kids who are genetically shorter as expected.

I did notice that when we moved from England to Germany a few years ago. Having taught Year 3 in England, they all seemed so tiny in comparison to the second graders I taught here. It's really weird.

I checked this with doctors when I was pregnant and only drank skimmed milk. Apparently the calcium level is virtually the same in skimmed vs full fat milk, only the fat / cream is removed. Doesn't inhibit bone growth at all.

@RedGreenBlueSky please dont feel like that. My DD is 15 and only 5ft2 my DS aged 12 and 13 are absolutely tiny for their age.

DS12 is only 134cm (the average height of a 9 year old). He eats brilliantly, loads of milk and dairy products, really lean beef, organic chicken, loads of fruit and veg, hardly any processed foods. His diet is making no difference to his height that I can see. I have done a lot of research into this and diet plays only a small role. Its the difference of a couple of inches at most. It could be a hormone disorder with your son. BTW I give my kids chocolate protein milk with dinner as its a great way to get milk into them if they dont like it. I know it has more sugar but its a concession I make.

The researchers obviously have not met my very tall grandchildren.

It's not just about calcium @QuizzlyBear. Children need fat in their diets and full fat milk also has fat soluble vitamins which are missing in low fat milk

The fact we are the same as the US doesn't surprise me. Our diet is very similar to the Americans.

I find it amazing that people on this thread are under the impression this means nothing. We KNOW height is an indicator of good nutrition. We KNOW that the UK has dropped comparatively to other countries over the last couple of decades. We KNOW that genetics can't answer for this, at least not entirely, because genetics don't change that quick. We KNOW that the UK diet is considered not very good, it's been on the political agenda for years.

Why the denial?

That's not entirely true. Otherwise human height would have remained the same over generations, despite nutritional advances. Genes aren't static and change, switch on and off over time allowing more growth hormones, when conditions are optimal (there'll be a theoretical ceiling for humans, of course, based on our anatomy) . There's been an upward trend intergenerational, whenever nutritional improvements are made.

Because any study carried out by experts in the subject is trashed or ignored if it doesn't reflect well on the government. You get people who have never carried out any such study and are not experts claiming they know better.

Yes. Quite. It's just so odd to me. Rather than just deny it, why are we not looking at what could be done? Is the right to feed our kids chicken nuggets and crisps really more important that scientific data on their health?

Also, do people think that the UK is the only place that has seen an increase in migration? No short Asians elsewhere?

Are we assuming taller = healthier?

i am not so sure that is always the case. At all.

I do think the whole meat/dairy is bad message is not at all helpful for child health and we will see the middle class kids with stunted growth as a result