To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Nope.

I'm a scruff who works with a wide selection of scruffs. Highly technical, well paid, requires a masters at least.

The world is changing.

If the kids are of an age to be wearing gingham frilled socks then they sound young enough that parents select their clothing.

so hardly going to have a detrimental impact on their careers anytime soon.

Judging small children on attire not even selected by them is an interesting level of standards.

I saw this row in a school I worked in when a new HT wanted to change the uniform policy to include dark coats.

A parent pointed out that so many of children walked to school due to the location and crossed roads.

After being asked (not at the first point of flagging it up, when they said they were aware of the safety aspect but still felt it smarter) to put in writing that they felt looking smarter was more important than the acknowledged safety aspect and were planning to proceed with the plan they decided something had been lost in communication and the plan had been scrapped as soon as the safety element was raised…

I think uniform’s are a great idea. Where I went to school there was a lot of very poor girls, turns out their uniforms were from the 2nd hand sale - we never knew. There was no bullying over who had the latest trainers etc. it’s about being part of a team . But I do agree about girls in ties. Skirts in winter and the cost…..

There's also the problem that a school uniform is a flag for violent youths or paedophiles. I don't like to think of my child going out dressed like that as it could make him a target, especially where boys in particular attack boys from nearby schools.

Why should we poorer people be forced into uniforms for fear of being bullied by the rich?!
Should females be forced to wear long skirts or trousers and button their shirts up high, too, lest predatory men grope them?!

Whereas when I was at school everyone still knew who was poor because they had an obviously second hand uniform, their PE trainers weren’t ££££ and all of the other markers of it.

Uniform did nothing to help me escape kids who wanted to use that angle for bullying.

My former colleague is Canadian and once remarked that in Canada people find it 'weird and creepy' that in the UK school uniforms are the norm - especially when girls are not allowed to wear trousers. It's very common in much of the world not to have a school uniform. In the UK school uniforms are part of the class system - it's an early lesson in learning your place as part of a faceless work force. The argument that it prepares young people for work is ridiculous, since leaving school I've never worn an ill fitting blazer or been pulled out of a meeting for not having the right shoes on. Surely nobody really believes that one 😂 dressing appropriately is common sense, most people wouldn't turn up at a funeral wearing a bikini. At least when I was at school the uniforms were cheap - when I started secondary school my mum bought me a blazer 5 sizes too big and said 'this is the only blazer you will ever get' and she was not wrong, I wore it for 5 years and never grew into it 😂

Another good point - why do young people need to be 'prepared for work' at the only time in their lives they don't have any responsibility?? Surely if there's a time to dye your hair green and pierce everything that's it?? Prepare them for work by telling them to enjoy it while it lasts 😂

How does “wear this exact thing every single day” prepare them for work anyway?

It teaches nothing about making appropriate clothing choices so if they actually start work in a place where they have to select clothes that are appropriate (especially if the dress code is the standard vague “appropriate) they’ve no actual experience of it.

The whole "look smart to prepare yourself for work" doesn't work if you're going to work in a practical job as well. Have you ever had a plumber or builder pop round in a suit and tie?

I work in a practical job. When I went for an interview for my first job, I wore something fairly smart. One of the people that worked there commented, "I wouldn't wear something like that, it's going to get dirty" Majority of people wear jeans and tshirts, shorts in the summer.

Even most teachers don't wear outfits as formal as school uniform

I don't think I washed my hideous blazer in the 5 years I wore it so definitely not prepared for work 😂

Virtually every school in my city is owned by the same MAT which is increasingly draconian about uniform. Items may only be purchased via one single shop, shirts/trousers are specified styles (eg style no 3466#, not black trousers).

So strict about shoes too - eg some sturdy, comfortable brands banned because of the tiny (less than cm) logo.

Lots of detentions for even first time, tiny infraction of the rules.

Plus the clothes are expensive and poor quality - the shirts are practically see through, so even in this heat the girls have to wear a t shirt under, else their bra is completely on show.

This! I went to school overseas - no school uniforms. I had classmates with purple hair, green hair, goths (including guys) wearing heavy eye make up. Surely being 15, 16, is exactly the time to be experimenting like this.

I'm also strongly of the belief that this seemingly constant battle around kids pushing back against uniforms (girls trying to wear their skirt as short as possible and so on) is precisely because it's the only way they can express themselves through their clothes as teens. Give them a chance to wear regular clothes and suddenly they might not care about hoiking up their skirt as high as possible anymore.

Oh and the "look smart to prepare yourself for work"... How do adults in the rest of the world manage to dress appropriately without having been 'trained' to do so since the age of 4?

I think this has always been the way - it was for my school anyway.
I remember a school teacher pulling me over on my walk home and questioning why I had the SCHOOLS PE hoodie on under my blazer. It was snowing! Freezing! I had about 3 mile to walk! I ended up getting a detention for it….. whilst she drove away in her lovely warm car!
Extremely particular about school uniform, even when the uniform was a mixture of their own clothing! In hindsight I wish I had of told her where to go.

I am surprised that so many posters are so shocked about teachers enforcing uniform rules. If the policy says top buttons have to be done up or no hoodies to be worn, of course teachers have to enforce the rules.

At DS’s school, teachers will grant permission to remove blazers of a particular room is exceptionally warm. Otherwise, the expectation is full uniform unless a heatwave is declared. I don’t see undoing a top button as making you less warm- it is wanton rule breaking and detention should be the result.

During the pandemic my DC school got really strict about uniform. If they had PE they could wear pe kit to school and were allowed joggers or leggings in school colours but no logos.
Considering all the other rules and protocols that had to be observed, I thought it seemed petty to pull someone up for having a 2" reebok logo or small Nike tick, on a pair of leggings for example, particularly when shops had been closed for weeks!
I felt sorry for Headteachers and teachers with a lot of last minute rule changes and protocols that had to be observed, often with minimal notice. However I had less sympathy when they zoned in on minor aspects of uniform, almost creating more work for themselves! If a kid had a school branded pe top, and blazer, is it actually the end of the world if they had a sports brand of joggers?

I am surprised that so many posters are so shocked about teachers enforcing uniform rules. If the policy says top buttons have to be done up or no hoodies to be worn, of course teachers have to enforce the rules.

Because teachers continuosly moan about being overworked and disrespected. Maybe they should taken up jobs as prison guards instead?

Teachers are under pressure from the higher-ups in the school, governors and academies to enforce the school rules. If they were found to be ignoring uniform infringements, they’d get picked up on it.

One of my friends is a teacher who has always been really into make-up. She absolutely hates having to tell the girls in her classes to wipe their perfectly reasonable and natural make-up off, as she literally doesn’t give a shit if they have make-up on and it has no bearing on her teaching. But if she was found to be overlooking it, she’d be the one who got into trouble.

This is a good point. Unfortunately school uniforms are a known fetish for creepy perverted men🤮why, as a society, are adults effectively dressing children up in ways that will knowingly attract this? Obviously everyone can dress how they like and no one deserves harassment ever, but the point is these young girls AREN’T dressing how they like and I’d bet a lot of them feel very uncomfortable in their uniforms in public.

I actually saw a clip of a documentary where a group of teenage girls were interviewed about social media, and all of them regularly received messages from grown men in their 30s and 40s, which is disgusting in and of itself, but this massively increased when pictures were posted on their socials of them and their friends in their school uniforms. The girls said that as a result, they felt very uncomfortable wearing their uniforms in public.

As I said in my OP, secondary school is still several years off for my DC but this thread has really made me think. I don’t want my children being given detention for ridiculous minor uniform infringements when their behaviour is otherwise good, or roasting in a mandatory blazer when it’s 30degrees outside.

Teachers have better things to do than that though. That’s the point.

And it sets them into conflict with the kids, often first thing in the morning as well.

Its a waste of their time.

This is a good point. Unfortunately school uniforms are a known fetish for creepy perverted men🤮

Yes. Uniform should send a message that this is a child, and shouldn't be lusted after. But with paedos, its obviously the opposite.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but I have long thought that school uniform should be abolished. We don't dress the way we did in the 1950s, we wear far different clothes generally. Men often don't wear ties at work, some offices have very lax dress codes and yet we stick to a school uniform that seems stuck in the past. If you also factor in that in some schools parents want a different uniform for religious reasons, then in some schools it's only the colour of the uniform that's the same.
I also think that it's not helping young people to dress appropriately. Forcing them to wear uniform means when they don't have to think about their clothes means they clearly can't make decisions about how to dress for certain situations. I mean, there are still occasions when looking the part matters but some don't get it.

But it would be a better use of everyone's time if they didn't force kids to be trussed up in corporate wear unnecessarily via their policies, then teachers could get on with teaching.

Why does a 12 year old need to spend 30 hours in a buttoned up shirt with a tie and a blazer on, and those ridiculous chunky leather corporate shoes? What is the point?