To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

We have no school uniform here (not uk obvs-!) and there doesn't seem to be any issues, kids go to school in jeans and t shirt or shorts and t shirt, dresses, leggings, etc we have indoor shoes hell the kids even just wear socks and we have no real problems!

Agreed. I'm Scottish, but have family members who are currently going through / have recently left the English school system (state, not private).

The expectations of uniform for a fairly average SW London school seem absolutely WILD to me - only one supplier for uniforms, everything is embroidered (even trousers), PE kit and even rucksacks are branded: the sort of thing that I would kind of expect of a private school, but not state.

When I was at secondary school (admittedly in Scotland and not yesterday), uniform was generally polo shirts and sweatshirts with grey or black trousers or a skirt, or, if you were representing the school at an external event, white shirt and tie and a blazer.

Shoes were black, but could be basically anything: I spent most of my school years in 9-hole DMs.

Very extreme personal styles were discouraged (i.e., no Mohicans or facial piercings), but I don't ever recall anybody getting sent home because they were wearing trainers or had hair + / - an inch of the required standard.

I find the English system quite baffling in many ways, not least the uniform requirements.

The expectations of uniform for a fairly average SW London school seem absolutely WILD to me - only one supplier for uniforms, everything is embroidered (even trousers), PE kit and even rucksacks are branded: the sort of thing that I would kind of expect of a private school, but not state.

I wonder why is it even legal and not challenged in court? Isn't the state education supposed to be free?

YANBU. The secondary school near me has the same uniform I wore went I went there 30 years ago. Blazers, ties etc.
Dropping off ds this morning one of the teachers at the gate said to a boy walking in "do your top button up Kyle". Its about 28 degress here ffs. Just why? And they can't take their blazers off either without having permission to.

Apparantly preparing them for work, you know to be adults, does not include allowing them the common sense to make the decision to remove their own blazer when they get too hot.

A smart pe type setup would be much more suited to todays world and still look smart. And waaaaaay more comfortable. And affordable!

Branded polo, plain jumper, jogging bottoms or shorts for the summer. But no, they need to look like little bank managers from 30 years ago in order to prepare them for life in the real world (where hardly anyone dresses like that anyway!).

When I was at secondary school (admittedly in Scotland and not yesterday), uniform was generally polo shirts and sweatshirts with grey or black trousers or a skirt, or, if you were representing the school at an external event, white shirt and tie and a blazer.

Shoes were black, but could be basically anything: I spent most of my school years in 9-hole DMs.

Very extreme personal styles were discouraged (i.e., no Mohicans or facial piercings), but I don't ever recall anybody getting sent home because they were wearing trainers or had hair + / - an inch of the required standard.

I was at secondary school in the 1990s. Our uniform was black blazer (school badge and tie purchased from school itself) white shirt and black trousers/skirt.
There was a school supplier in the posh part of town but you weren't obliged to use it. My parents bought skirts at bhs , or the market. (I don't recall supermarkets generally selling clothes at that stage) We could wear mini skirts or ankle length and yes I wore dms (I think mine were 8 hole) for most of secondary, as did many people. My friend had her nose pierced, I don't think anyone cared. I never got a detention, and I left with decent gcses

I will never forget the very distinct smell of 30 wet pure wool blazers on 30 smelly teenagers in a damp prefab hut heated with gas cylinder mobile heaters.
And this was a Scottish state comp 30 years ago.
Hate blazers now.

Oh and the teacher who commented about the top button was wearing a light cotton summer dress.

I went to a private girls school and we only wore our blazers in assembly, other than that we wore a jumper and blouse, and you didn't need permission to take your jumper off. Plain skirt ( on the knee ) and black shoes ( no patent leather, high heels or trainers ) and it was up to you if you wore tights, stockings or bare legs. There were no rules regarding your hair other than you had to wear it up at all times. However, you were expected to present yourself in a tidy and proper manner.

There were strict rules in other areas though; self-discipline, manners and conduct. Break those and you were out, gone.

I once worked in a school at a time when they were changing the uniform. The school council was asked to poll their fellow students on what they preferred, and they wanted blazers & ties. That amazed me.

That was my experience as a pupil aged about 13. We were asked to vote on 5 aspects of uniform and there was a big majority in favour of keeping the blazer compulsory all the way to the end of year 11. Before that it was only compulsory for boys the whole way through and optional for girls after year 9. I certainly voted to keep it. Loved all those pockets.

I remember reading a book by the old head mistress of St Paul’s Girls (a really terrifyingly high achieving school with no uniform). She said that she was completely unconcerned with what the girls wore as long as it was inoffensive and allowed them to participate in school. If a girl can’t experiment with her appearance while at school then she pretty much never can.

I'm glad both our local secondaries have sensible uniforms. Dark trousers or skirt, polo shirt, logo'ed sweatshirt. Very similar to the local primaries, really. Phew!

I thought there had been changes to stop the everything must be bought for one shop and fully logoed but the schools near us seem to do that.
Our village primary swapped from generic/supermarket grey skirt and green sweatshirt/polo to kilt from one shop, shirt and wool jumper with logo on a couple of years ago.
State secondary dd went to has 2 blazer options. I’ve just checked and they still do. One at £45 and one at £80. 99% wear the £80 one so ones who don’t really stick out - colour is a different shade, different fabric and different buttons. Everything else from one shop and logoed inc the £28 pe leggings I mentioned earlier.

That was my experience as a pupil aged about 13.

my experience too. not UK, but school voted to reintroduce uniforms. In my class, turkeys voted for Xmas, except for me and a handful of (badly behaved) boys. Thankfully, the parents went strongly against. They were not going to fork out for that shit, especially as many were really struggling financially.

Maybe the turkeys voting for Christmas response is to do with something in poplular culture making uniforms seem “cool”? Harry Potter, Gossip Girl, Britney “baby one more time” etc.

When I was at school we were all desperate to wear the Neighbours and Home & Away style summer dresses, alas, it was never meant to be 😔

Maybe the turkeys voting for Christmas response is to do with something in poplular culture making uniforms seem “cool”? Harry Potter, Gossip Girl, Britney “baby one more time” etc.

Not really, pop culture uniforms came slightly later. But believe me or not, the majority's reasoning (especially girls) was that -- "we wouldn't have to THINK what to wear every morning".

The same effect would be had with a logo’d polo shirt/tee and basic black trousers or leggings though. Without all of the ridiculous rules and draconian punishments.

Uniform is a stupid idea, many other countries appear to manage without it. One of the reasons I chose my child’s secondary school was the no uniform policy. It is SO petty and does nothing to prepare you for work.

This year was the first year in my son’s school that they allowed them to take off their jumpers in the heat! I’d love them to wear polo shirts like primary instead of shirts!

Come to NI state grammar school uniforms and pe kits will make your eye water at the price

Blazers are popular with the girls at the three out of four schools near me as they have lots of pockets (unlike most girls / women's clothes) so they can carry their phone, ID / gate cards, hairbands & maybe pens & pads. DD2's weighs more than my handbag! One of the schools tried to get rid of it (under the new affordability rules) & the girls organised a protest and it was kept as an option.

DD1 was in private school & the uniform if purchased new was very expensive but we got all the logo-ed stuff in the 2nd hand shop and the non-logo items from M&S, JL & Asda. Never had to buy specific shirts, trousers (all with rubbish pockets), socks or tights.

Yes, but I liked both the not having to think about it and the actual wearing it. I liked how it looked, I loved how useful all the blazer pockets were. Long before Harry Potter or anything like that. I never got the changing after school either or it feeling uncomfortable. I only had impetus to change if it was Guides that night or I was actually going out. Although if it was a family dinner out or something I probably wouldn't have changed for that.

It was for both those reasons I wished 6th form had kept it too.

Schools having rules for things that aren't generally uniform annoys me a lot, I just found out the high school that's the better option for my eldest (currently y5) insists on a plain black, navy or grey coat. Kids coats shouldn't be dark/plain for safety reasons, they're much more visible on the roads in winter wearing a bright coloured coat. They shouldn't be wearing the coat in class so what does it matter what colour their coat is!?

I just think the smarter the better. It’s about maintaining standards. I’ve just had my child’s class photo back and so many look like a load of absolute scruffs. The policy is black school shoes, but several are in grubby white trainers, or dirty shoes. Some of the polo shirts are missing buttons, one little girl is wearing white socks, one has a blue gingham frill, the other has a green one. We were told umpteen times about school photos. I know it’s not a big deal, but looking neat and tidy everyday will stand you in good stead for work, whether you’re in the corporate world or not.

I just think the smarter the better. It’s about maintaining standards. I’ve just had my child’s class photo back and so many look like a load of absolute scruffs.

Oh the horror! Children looking different from each other. Better they'd look like corporate robots with heads transplanted.