To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Blazers are polyester nightmares. DC1 goes to a school with polo, school coloured checked skirt and jumper. Some of her friends go to a neighbouring school with shirts, blazers and ties. (Most schools are like you say shirt, blazers and ties). Apparently the blazers are so bulky it doesn't fit inside most coats. Many of the year 7s have to not wear a coat until their parents can afford to buy them a different much larger coat to accomodate the blazer. How ridiculous is this?

The results aren't any different between my DC more casual school and her friends blazer school.

given the other convo we're having (can't remember which board) about how casual the world of work is these days, perhaps schools should drop their claim that it is to "prepare the children for the world of work" and just admit that it is control freakery and totally batshit to expect blazers to be worn in sweltering heat?

I think school uniforms are ridiculous at any age.

I get a bit cross when schools say that girls have to have the school supplied, logoed skirt or trousers. What if you’re a bit fat? Or a funny shape? I remember my mum making my school skirts because I hated absolutely every skirt I tried on in the shops.

There was a thread a while ago from someone whose daughter had been told that her skirt was unacceptable. The daughter had a tiny waist and wide hips and there was no shop that sold skirts that the school found acceptable (I think it had to sit on the waist at a certain point and not be in any way tight on the hips).

If the school is going to insist on the logoed stuff the school shop needs to have lots in all sizes at all times. If someone rips their trousers, it isn’t all right to say that the school shop will have them in in three weeks’ time.

Ties on girls are a weird idea (so are they on boys but men do, from time to time, wear them).

Blazers are a bit difficult. A cheap blazer usually looks terrible (and makes the school look bad, it’s strange that they can’t see this when they insist on them). An expensive blazer is probably too expensive for a lot of people.

These threads always have those of us in Scotland scratching our heads in disbelief at the requirement in state schools for skirts from a specific supplier, PE uniform, branded everything because here it just doesn't happen.

At my kids' state senior school the only items available are blazer and tie. The blazer is a recycled polyester one which you can shove in the machine to wash and costs about £35. The tie is a fiver. The uniform colours are black and white. Parents can buy any white shirts/blouses, any black skirts/trousers, jumpers, cardigans, pinafore dresses. For PE the kids can wear any shorts/t-shirts they wish, with the addition of joggers/leggings and a hoodie in winter. Only rule is no offensive slogans, no alcohol branding.

So the kids at school all look consistent in that they're all dressed in black and white with a blazer, but not identical in that some will be head to toe M&S, others Asda or mix and match .

Are you suggesting that in countries where children don't wear uniform the kids are all much more badly behaved than kids in the UK because they don't have uniform to rebel against? Standards of behaviour have very little to do with what kids wear.

School uniform has never been worn at any age in my country and the kids are no better or worse behaved than the kids who do in other countries @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I don’t buy the rebellious thing at all. As others say, this has no bearing in other countries with no uniform.

I think we are all used to seeing American tv shows and films where students are dressed up like they are on a catwalk every day and the “popular” kids are in designer gear. In reality, most American kids just wear leggings or jeans, and t shirts/jumpers to school.

If we abolished school uniform tomorrow, there would probably be a few weeks of carnage before the novelty well and truly wore off and kids would be wearing what they just wore at home. Those of you with teens - what do they generally wear during the day on a weekend if they were, say, going to the shops or the cinema? Would there be any issue wearing that same outfit to school?

And by “issue” I mean, would those outfits be seen as incredibly inappropriate, revealing or uncomfortable enough to affect their learning.

You are not being unreasonable, it's getting silly. I'm a secondary school teacher and a parent of a 14 year old and I think big changes need to be made.

The cost is astronomical, branded PE wear is the one that really burns me (why can't they just wear a t-shirt and joggers?!) But our school governors and the head absolutely love the idea of them looking like private schoolers.

My son goes to a specialist school he has very complex learning difficulties yet he has to wear a shirt, blazer and tie. He or his classmates are never going to work in an office most of them infact can't read or write so that theory doesn't hold with them. In their case trackies and a polo would be far more practical though they won't change as "it looks smarter" 🙄

I agree.

I do think uniform is a leveller and removes some of the things to bully about though. That said, we could always tell who had the second hand bobbly cardigans at school and who had the shiny new ones. But it is different to not having the "right" trainers.

Yanbu. My DD school insisted on blazers during the hottest days of this year. Ridiculous

The cost is astronomical, branded PE wear is the one that really burns me (why can't they just wear a t-shirt and joggers?!) But our school governors and the head absolutely love the idea of them looking like private schoolers

When my son started secondary he was allowed to wear generic PE kit from the supermarket. When he was in Y9 they introduced an expensive PE kit. I was really cross. However, I will say that it washed and wore really well and looked nice. In the end I was less bothered about it. His school didn't have a blazer, although they do have a tie.

I have to say I would be writing to the school to say my son or daughter would not be wearing blazers when the temperature is above 20 degrees. They can do what they want - I would not be requiring my child to comply. It is completely stupid.

The problem is that it is usually academies who have the most ludicrous rules and they are not accountable. At least with an LA school you can appeal to the LA. Not so with academies. I'd vote for a government who'd rein them in a bit (a lot).

I'm less keen on branded PE wear too. Especially as DD's old school it says 'PE department' where I think it should say 'XYX School'.

Though as a parent of DC with dyspraxia maybe I'm somewhat biased.

I agree that school are unreasonable in sense parents are expected to get certain clothes from certain shops. I am a fan of smart uniform including wearing tie etc but I think short, trouser and skirts should be allowed to be brought from any shop or if it comes from school suppliers it should be cheap.
I am not keen on a lot of the primary school uniforms - I think the its looks scruffy.

I think the real issue is that kids and parents often feel that rules don’t apply to them and therefore we gat the annual September deluge of sad faced/ outraged parents and children in the press. The uniform code is set out in application packs/ same with school rules if you don’t like the rules enrol elsewhere or follow process and write to the Governors whilst ensuring your child follows the rules you agreed to upon admission. For those who say they don’t have a choice of schools, there is always a choice even if it involves moving or homeschooling.

However, I agree that the cost of uniform for many is prohibitive and feel that schools should not get kickbacks. A basic uniform like black trousers/ skirt white shirt/ polo top with collar/ sensible black shoes without a heel should be the norm, they are easily purchased from supermarkets and are often a lot cheaper than school outfitters.

As SMT I have had to enforce uniform rules and spent many hours doing so ( and no I don’t enjoy it at all) there was almost always a huge correlation between those who kick against the rules and their pastoral record as a whole. I don’t believe kids should be forced to wear blazers but a basic smart casual uniform that can be purchased virtually anywhere is sensible in a school environment, or we face the issue of fashion parade/ offensive slogan t shirts ( hours wasted arguing with parents and carers about what is or is not offensive, it happens).

Kids by their nature will try and get around the rules, it is natural and part of growing and exploring. A basic standard of dress keeps them safe, on school trips etc they are more easily identifiable etc… If kids really object to a part of the uniform I have said to students that they can complain to the Governors and I would help them with following process. If the governors refuse ( and they often do), you have your answer and then have a choice about either moving school or staying put and adhering to the rules.

For those who say they don’t have a choice of schools, there is always a choice even if it involves moving or homeschooling.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have to work for a living.

if you don’t like the rules enrol elsewhere or follow process and write to the Governors whilst ensuring your child follows the rules you agreed to upon admission. For those who say they don’t have a choice of schools, there is always a choice even if it involves moving or homeschooling.

Id imagine for the majority families in England, their nearest choice of non-uniform secondary would be in France! 🇫🇷

For those who say they don’t have a choice of schools, there is always a choice even if it involves moving or homeschooling.

As if the vast majority of people can just move house or stop work to home school. what nonsense.

YADNBU

my bugbear is not necessarily the uniform itself but branded uniform. A local (not private) schol near us has wool blazers that are over £100 each and skirts are about 40.
My own DC school penalises girls uniform, in that girls must wear a school issue skirt (about £25 from compulsory supplier) or school issue unflattering trousers from same supplier. Boys are told what colour trousers they need, but can be bought from M and S for example, so more choice and much cheaper. DS is fairly skinny and wears slim fit ones.

And the 6th form "business wear" rule. For a start most adults, even in corporate environments don't wear suits and ties any more, and secondly for practical subjects it's even more of a nonsense. In art or tech where you might be cooking, pouring concrete, doing metal work or using oil based paints absolutely no one who worked in those fields would wear a suit, they would wear something practical. When teens are still growing replacing a suit can be expensive, even more so if it gets damaged or stained before they've grown out of it!

And I'm sure most teachers themselves are not wearing shirts, blazers and ties in 30° heat.

Kids by their nature will try and get around the rules, it is natural and part of growing and exploring. A basic standard of dress keeps them safe, on school trips etc they are more easily identifiable

Would they though? All black blazers look the same if you can’t see the badge, and you have to get up very close indeed to identify the logos on otherwise identical sweatshirts.

Another argument against school uniforms is how they tend to be more stringent for girls. The idea that by dressing a certain way (for example a short skirt), a girl is asking to be harassed is a total oxymoron, and yet it is being perpetuated by official bodies.
The idea that boys cannot control themselves such that they are distracted by girls wearing in appropriate clothing - could almost imply that they are not responsible for their own actions.

At primary the all in red jumpers is handy if on a trip but most schools near me seem to put high viz vests on the children if they are out walking.
Secondary. DD’s school used to have standards on none uniform day eg no bare midriffs, no strappy tops. They usually looked uniform on none uniform day - jeans and hoodies boys and girls.
I can see in summer none uniform might be trickier. Look for girls from one local secondary school out and about seems to be skimpy tight shorts that show outline of their genitals and bra tops. That wouldn’t be appropriate in school.