To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

I completely agree @Surprisedbysummer.

@Florencey I am sorry if things are tough.

Yeah because ironing shirts and cooking is really a life of leisure 😆

well, depends.

I wouldn't give up my career for the sake of DH's, even if I earned less (which I don't). What if he died? Or left me? Or became unable to work? Then I/ we would have no fall back. Two ok careers give better security for a couple and no career for one person is super risky.

I think there is also a systemic nature to this. Our parents were growing up with more equality and urged their daughters to get educated, get a career, to be whatever they wanted. But forgot to teach their sons anything different from what went before. I think that's why so many parents today find themselves in this bind and it's presented as just the way it is, as opposed an issue arising because men won't take action to even the field. I work for financial security, my own self actualisation, etc. but a side bonus is that my kids see how an equal household works (it's not perfect of course, and has taken a while to figure out). While we all make individual decisions we make them inside a system which has paths of least resistance worn over time.

I think it is very difficult to juggle family life and working when your children are small, but as they get older and are both in primary and secondary school, life does run more smoothly in a lot of ways. I’ve been part time since ours were small, and really have no need financially to return full time as my husband earns a lot, but since mine have got older, I’ve found myself able to focus far more on my career and - despite part time hours - have really progressed. Obviously there is a ceiling to this with my hours (in my profession) but my husband and I have discussed how we will make it work when I decide to return full time (which I will).

I like having something that is mine. My career gives me focus and helps with my self esteem and really stops me from getting bored - and I do find I rattle around the house a bit now on my days off. Yes, the house is run far better (for us) with me at home, but we’d make it work. I’m also happy that should something awful happen, I could financially support us.

Think very carefully before giving up work; I’ve found it to be worth it ploughing through the early years. Something we always appreciate too is that my husband’s earnings mean I get to be really picky about my own job: I won’t return full time to a position I don’t love; I will wait for the right one, and because we don’t need the money, I can bide my time.

Well quite. To add to women working and doing all the domestic labour, the women who did stay at home were mostly running a household, not actively looking after kids. All the data are very clear on this point - today’s working mothers spend more time with their children than mothers of 40-50 years ago who were mostly at home. Labour saving devices and the pill have enabled smaller families and for time to be actively spent with kids.

Being a SAHM has definitely been the best job I've ever had but that's because I chose it whole heartedly. I don't know why it would be considered unfeminist - surely feminism is about women having choices. In comparison I've always found work incredibly stressful and unfulfilling, I can't say I've ever had a job I enjoyed.

It's different though if you feel you have to be a SAHM and leave a career you love. What do you want in an ideal world and what can you do/put in place/get help or support with to enable that?

Definitely, there really is a lot to be said for the short term pain, long term gain approach. Obviously some couples have no choice but to prioritise the immediate. But when you have the option, both parents having stayed in the workforce often pays dividends in terms of choices later.

Sorry you're being piled on, OP. I totally understand where you're coming from. We're in the same situation.

We have two young kids and while we could manage with nursery because it ran 51 weeks a year, 7am-6pm, once the eldest started school and we had a younger child as well, it became obvious that having two full time working parents wasn't going to work for us as a family. No judgement on any other family.

We both have long commutes and would both be out the house 7am - 6pm. It would have been too early to use breakfast club so we would have needed a child minder before and after the before and after school clubs! Combined with the 13 weeks school holidays with no family support nearby it became very clear that it wasn't feasible.

We chose for me to stay at home for two reasons. Firstly, luckily my career can be continued as a freelancer whereas my husband's can't. And secondly he is the higher earner. Totally understand PP points about being financially dependent on your partner and I felt uncomfortable with this too.

You do what's right for you. I watched my full time working friends struggle to cobble together time off, childminders and holiday clubs to deal with school hours, and I knew that wasn't right for us. We're lucky we can just about make it work with me freelancing. Other people aren't so lucky, I know. Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision for your family, as long as you're both aware that if you're a SAHM you are actually contributing equally to the household - it's not all about financial contribution. Good luck!

My second is coming up to 2 now and my older is in reception. I really considered not going back to work I didn’t know how I was going to handle all the drop offs timings etc. I was part time 3 days a week in the office an hour away from home so I changed my hours 10-4 so I could do the school and childminder drop off and then pick youngest up then older from after school club. Did it for a month and went to hand my notice in it was so stressful and not getting home with traffic till about 6 - no time with the kids dinner bath and bedtime was a mess and the kids were horrendous. My work compromised and I changed my hours to 9-3 so daughter goes to breakfast club which is 100% easier and youngest to the childminder so I don’t need to worry about feeding them and I’m home to pick her up from school and I get to work from home 2 days a week now. I would just go with it and see how you get on. I just push through because I don’t want to be jobless when they are both at school!

I know it's an unpopular opinion on here but I love being a SAHM to my 4 DC's. It's not for everyone, and it is incredibly draining, but I realise how fortunate I am to be in this position. I continued to work part time after my eldest was born but with the others it just wasn't feasible. I also have no outside help either, no family willing to help etc, if that makes a difference.

I saw my mum not working as a child for the reasons you set out (my dad earned a lot more, and couldn’t get the right sort of childcare). For that reason I decided I’d get a well paid job, and so I became an accountant. It also meant I could afford a nanny when DC were very little (before youngest started primary, then had series of au pairs until youngest started secondary).

I earn similar to my DH, on a pro rata basis (I work 4 days but when DC younger I did 3 days). I could easily do full time now as DC at secondary but I like the flexibility.

I think if earn a lot less a career break makes sense; it’s just the reality.

Nothing wrong with taking a few years out. Ignore the doom mongers. If you are professionally qualified nice and normal you can get back into decent work. Then you have the best of all worlds.

Meh! Mumsnet is so anti women giving up work. Just take a few years out, enjoy a less stressful existence, and enjoy your kids. The fact you can afford it means you are in a fantastic and very fortunate position.
You can always go back to work later. Only you know if your role means returning would be a struggle. I would love to give up work.

Your career is likely to be 40 odd years. Taking 4-6 years out shouldn’t torpedo it. Not in this day and age. Anecdotally know lots of professional women who took a career break then go back. Especially at the moment. Several sahms I know got head hunted.

I think in your heart you know what you want/need to do. You've had very good advice on here. Only you and your DH will know what will work with your family. Besides, you are not stuck in the option you made, you can change it if you find doesn't work. Sometimes, I toss a coin making these decisions, not because I am taking it lightly, but because if I was disappointed in what comes up, then I know what I actually want to do. Good luck whatever you decide.

Hate to burst yr tiny bubbles but having the freedom to do what you want is not feminist. Unfortunately most people have limited choices and women certainly shouldn't be judged or blamed for having to make difficult (or less than ideal) choices - but why do you think that is??? Because society is engineered so that women take care of men from cradle to grave. And yet we keep falling for the same bullshit. Feminism is the belief that women deserve equal treatment - not to be treated like lesser men, but to receive genuine equal rights, not too demanding considering women make up 50% of the human race.
Real social change requires sacrifice. Imagine if a generation of women chose not to have children - actively chose this regardless of the impact on their own emotions and individual lives - with a goal to influence an actual change. But that won't happen because anyone with any kind of agency wants to believe 'oh it won't hurt if I just do what I want, little old me, other people will make things happen and I don't have to sacrifice any of the things I really want in life' and everyone else is too poor to have any real choices about how their life turns out. Men don't and never will care about issues which affect women - why would they when it doesn't affect them. And yet women still believe a romantic relationship with a man - someone who sees you as a lesser human - is the most important relationship they will ever have, to the extent they give up their independence, spend their time worrying about someone else's wellbeing, do chores which are never noticed or appreciated, so why should men take us seriously? Make peace with your choices because life is short but at least be real about it.

It’s interesting that so many have decided that what I want is to be a SAHM and I have come here for validation for that choice. I actually don’t - not to preschool children, anyway! I wouldn’t mind much if they were at school during the day …

I think so many posts have started to focus on the minutiae of my particular situation they don’t really seem to grasp the overall situation. I genuinely don’t think this is about feminism, either. It is more about the fact that I have always been shit at subjects that lend themselves to highly paid professions - maths mainly, but also science, tech, ICT. Meanwhile, DH was brilliant at them. That combined with a certain amount of luck for him (right place and right time) meant he had a very lucrative career before him. I have been more ‘middling’ in my achievements and in my career. I do have things I am good at, very good at. They just don’t tend to pay as well.

So the replies tend to focus on:

a) DH should be doing more. If this means changing jobs to a low paid one then be it so.

b) Be a SAHM; that’s clearly what you want but be honest about it. (No, I don’t!)

c) I managed so why the hell can’t you - I am managing, but we had a rough old trot just before my maternity leave with lots of being sent home from nursery and it was that which had me thinking. It is very guilt inducing when work won’t let you go and the other parent is the other end of the country and there’s no one else

d) I loved being a SAHM - which is good some people do. <whispers> I have two solo days with my toddler and that’s probably enough!

e) I get it.

One thing I have noticed and whether this is a MN thing or not I am not sure but no matter how many times I repeat some things some people don’t seem to hear or accept it. I don’t mind being part time but the pay is not very good and realistically I probably won’t have a ‘career’ as such.

@bluewatersummer what a noble, well written and measured post.

It sounds as though part-time would suit, do something you like for you rather than for the money. Choice is a marvellous thing as is getting out of the house and relief from tinies.

I gave up work (teaching) and I’ve never regretted it. My lifestyle is squire stress free. In time I also discovered the work of flexible work. With (higher) hourly paid work I only give up the time I want to, I could quite easily convert to full time, I’m flexible and taking childcare into account we have far more money to play with as a family. I don’t know anyone, working or not, who regrets it on a personal level. I’ve only read it online

Yeah, I don’t have the same career label… but I give no shits. I’m treated with respect and I’m happy. As I was in the 5 years of not working

The constant illnesses do stop and when they in year 1 of school it (usually) becomes a rarity for them to be ill.

We had a nanny and that really worked when they were little. Having worked at a nursery before she'd had all the bugs and was rarely ill, unless children were really poorly she'd look after them when they were ill. Covering illness when your nanny is sick and you just have a nice bonus day with your child is actually a nice thing!

It's obviously up to you, I can see the benefit of both. I really enjoy working and value the independence. However, there is a lot of juggling with kids that makes life stressful and if you're lone parenting when your partner is away that's hard too! I can see that it may be good to have a break from work until both kids are at school and see how you feel then.

@Bluewatersummer

One thing I have noticed and whether this is a MN thing or not I am not sure but no matter how many times I repeat some things some people don’t seem to hear or accept it.

You're right: these sorts of threads tend to turn into a bunfight between women who have taken different routes and feel defensive about what they've done. An awful lot of the content on these SAHM vs WOHM threads is people projecting. But you have correctly identified that other people's views are not the same as yours and you need to find your own path through this.

I believe strongly there are objective reasons, backed by hard data, to feel that making oneself totally dependent on a man for money is usually a bad idea. But I think there is often more nuance to this than sometimes comes out in these discussions and it is entirely possible to take some time off at a time when things are stressful and reduce the load a bit as long as you build in some optionality to get back into the workplace when your children are older.

It sounds like you have your head pretty well screwed on: you know you need to make life easier for yourself but you know you don't want to be an SAHM. It sounds like you can feasibly reduce your hours without abandoning your career altogether.

I think the next step is probably to sit down with your DH and have a frank discussion about what you need and how he can support you.

Well my friends DH walked out on her for a younger woman after 30 years together and marriage of 25 years a year ago.

The actual heartbreak is horrific but her financial situation is dire and she finds herself aged 53 with FA pension.

A couple of years off would be great but do not risk it long term. I went PT well it was dropping one day that was perfect and my pension is quite healthy.

@Bluewatersummer
Don't dismiss part time because it's not well paid/won't give career progression now. It's the long term strategy you might want to think about. There was a point where I/the household was actually financing me eyeing working. But it wasn't for long and it kept me in the career I was qualified in. This meant that years later when the kids were in secondary I was able to go full time and pursued promotion. Just as body well I kept that option as dh because seriously unwell and went from training for a marathon to being a blue badge holder. If you can keep a foot hold in work so. It's so not worth the risk. You might be in a shortage career that would have you back at a similar level after 3 or 4 years out, but if not what would you do if dh could not work in his highly paid job or god forbid left you.