To think people in the UK are very lax generally about children being left alone?

[Toxicityofourcity]

Not from the UK. Some of the threads on here baffle me when it comes to leaving children alone. Children as young as 10 and 11 getting themselves home from the school, bus etc and letting themselves into an empty house. Being left for a few hours on their own. Have just read a thread about a 16yr old being left for 4 days... because she has to mind some cats?!? WTF? I just don't understand. This is not something that's done in my country at all. Is it a cultural thing? Do people not worry about house fires, accidents, abductions etc.? I just really don't understand it. But here on MN it seems totally acceptable?

The problem is that once they’re 11 and start secondary school the government stop supporting childcare unless you have a child with a disability I lift. You can claim a childcare allowance on your tax credits/UC, not sure if they’re still around but also childcare vouchers which are tax free. But once they get to secondary those parents that needed that financial support can’t have it. Also secondary schools don’t provide the same type of breakfast and after school care that primary schools often do. So you have a child of 10/11 in y6 who is going to be faced with the prospect of secondary school and being left in the house when the parents go to work - possibly from 7am like mine does - so they need to get themselves up and out and lock up. And then they return to the empty house after school until parents return from work - often between 5-6pm and later. So you have to start them at 10/11 to slowly get them used to it. So my 10 year old walks to school most days herself now when I’m not at work. On my work day I still drop her at breakfast club for 7:30. Some days she stays til 5 at after school club but I’ve started to ask that she can leave after school club at 4;30 with a key to walk home and let herself in where o won’t be far behind her. My 13 year old had had to do this since y7 but didn’t have the practice at y6 due to lockdown!! My 13 year old is autistic so I can claim for childcare for her still but actually getting someone who takes a secondary child is impossible where we love. She’s got used to being home alone.

Then you have secondary schools where if they suddenly close halfway through the day due to maintenance issues, they would likely just send all the kids home. So from age 11. On strike days most of the secondary pupils at my daughters school were left home for the day rather than parents taking time off.

I guess you know your own child and can train them up. My kids when home alone aren’t allowed to use the gas hob and gas cooker for example. They can use the toaster, microwave and air fryer though because I’ve shown them how to safely use them. And the kettle to make a hot drink.

Our primary school brought on a stupid rule recently for wrap around that it had to be booked a week in advance. So alot if families who were using it more as hoc, or weren’t sure on their exact travel times due to traffic and work patterns decided to give their children a key to go lock up and get home themselves. Y5 is common for walking home alone (age 9/10) so many introduced the letting themselves on the house for a couple of hours.

I was a paid babysitter by 14.

I think this point the OP makes is interesting. From the age of 13 when they start secondary they get more independence. I green up in first middle and high and it was more like 13 for us to be out and about more independently at that age. But our county was different and neighbouring counties were two tier so started secondary at 13. Now I have my own children and our county is now two tier I was hesitant at the leaving home alone thing from age 11 but we’ve had the two tier for many years and no real childcare provision has existed for the 11-13 year olds that might have gone to middle schools and had more childcare available. So we’ve just gone with it. 11 still seems young to me to start high school. I’ve one in y6 about to go and one in y9 which is when I would have started high school back in the late 80s. There’s a huge difference between their maturity but we’ve had to make do. Eve introduced the independence earlier.

Just because we were younger, doesn’t make it ideal now. There does need to be a balance.

I was coming home on my own and left for hours from age 8. Also expected to be in charge of younger sibling.

I was also own my own the evenings from age 11.

I don’t look back on it happily, it was often quite lonely and stressful.

I don’t think it’s ideal for a 16 year old to be left alone for 4 nights, let alone live by themselves or join the bloody army.

My parents left me alone every weekend from the age of 13. I was more than capable of looking after myself and my younger sister, but I have issues relating to it now.

i wouldn’t leave my 16-year old alone for more than a night, and even then very reluctantly. He’s 15 now and doesn’t really like being alone anyway.

It's ~20 years ago now, but from 17 I was regularly staying home while the rest of my family were away abroad on holiday for 10/14 days. I was perfectly capable of feeding myself, getting myself where I needed to be and had people I could call if I needed help in any way. Mid/late teens if raised properly should be able to look after themselves for a few days no problems.

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, and obviously some 16 year oolds do have sex, but I don't think they should. They are still children. They might want to have sex, but it doesn't mean to say they should.
And imho 16 year olds shouldn't be left on their own for days. Their brains are still developing. They are still at the stage of not always seeing dangers and still need direction, albeit less advice and direction as time goes on. And I say this having raised 3 adventurous and intelligent children who lived abroad (one in an Eastern country for 6 months straight after leaving school and one for 2 years in a European country straight after university.) Aged 16, they are fine - unless something scary happens....

But a 17 year old could only be a few months older than the 16 year old you said was too young! I mean there is a big difference between a v mature 16yo and a reckless 17yo. I would never leave mine alone for 4 nights at 16, however I don't think it's a child safety issue.

In northern Ireland kids travel to school alone too. I am English and have lived in Belfast and the country with family down south and it seems to be the norm across the board, or so I thought.

At 16 I had left home and was in London in shared accommodation with other girls (vocational training) where we cooked, cleaned and did pretty much everything for ourselves. By 17 we all moved into privately rented accommodation in twos for more of the same. At 18 we were independently travelling the world, competing and performing. To say that it's dangerous to let a 16 yr old be at home alone for a few days is utterly ridiculous imho.

a 16 year old can legally join the army, have a baby, and work full time - not really sure why looking after some cats is too much to expect?

The chances of spontaneous house fires (most 11 year olds would be told not to use the oven etc) or abduction are vanishingly low. There is a risk to absolutely everything, if you didn't let kids gradually build up independence moving out or getting a job at 18 or whenever would be a huge shock to the system.

OP what are working hours/expectations in your country? I can't see how 2 parents could work full time if they couldn't leave the house before 9am and had to be home by 3pm for at least 16 years, more if they had 2plus children.

I have started having to leave my son on his own 1 Saturday every 6 weeks so that I can go to my (not too frequent) hair appointment. It's not every appointment, but my husband has had this habit of doing things on Saturday afternoons, so there's been maybe 3 times now. He's just turned 11, so it was the later part of him being 10.
He will need to get from the bus stop 5 minutes walk away to home after school from September, but either his dad or I will be working at home (this could change as I'm looking to change jobs so 1 days a week there will be nobody in).
I don't let him use the oven, so I have no worry about fires or burglars, otherwise I'd never leave the house myself!
He is very content to sit in the house watching TV or using the laptop

My kids are 13 and 15
They walk to secondary school and back every day (to be fair we are lucky and it's only a 10 min walk with one road to cross)
I leave for work 20 mins before they do. They are quite capable of leaving on time and locking the front door. They know if they don't then they will have to leave when I do.

They started walking to school and back from the age of 9/10 (school year 5/6)

I am at home or back shortly after when they finish school.
In the school holidays they hang out at home/go out with friends while I am at work 3 mornings a week (wfh the rest of the time)

It is good for them to be independent.

If anything, teenagers left alone are at risk of dehydration/starvation from playing their Nintendo switches for 72 hrs straight with no sleep. Not a house fire from the oven.
I was left alone at 16 and played WOW for 36 hours, ahhh those were the times!

I wouldn't pay childcare for a 10/11 year old. They're capable of getting home and staying in the house for a couple of hours. You just tell them not to touch the cooker. Get a snack, pop the telly on or better yet fold the drying. What 16 year old wants to go on holiday with you anymore? I wouldn't leave them completely alone. They have family to hand should they need them. But I see nothing wrong with any of that.

I was left home alone for 2 weeks aged 16 when my parents went on holiday. Got myself to and from school and didn’t set fire to anything. Also pre mobiles so they checked in every other evening on the home phone.

I started going to nightclubs aged 15 and left home at 17. I also flew myself aged 15 with no assistance.

so yes I think you’re very much in minority

Sound like OP is from the US. In which case I can probably understand her fears, due to gun crime etc...
However it's common to leave your child alone for short periods of time from age 10/11. My son is 11 and asd and he is perfectly fine to be left for short periods of time. I've been doing this for a year now to give him some independence in readiness for secondary school. Location defiantly influences the way we parent our children. We live in leafy kent and its far safer than where I grew up in London.

If my ds decided he didn't want to holiday with me when he is 16, I would like to think (he's only 8 just now but can be very sensible when he wants to be) he would be safe at home alone. In fact, in Yr4 at his school he is allowed to make his own way there and back and I intend for him to do this. He will have a fairly busy road to cross but has had good road sense since before he even started school. I will say that as pleased as he is, he did ask for a house key and I said no. His school is a short walk from the school where I work so have said he can walk to meet me as he finishes before me.
Also, just to add, my DSDs live in Cornwall and their maternal cousin was learning to drive a tractor at 13. He was doing well until he was 16 and then he drove into another farm hand causing muscle damage to their calf.

@Toxicityofourcity well I too am Irish and I seriously thought you must have been in the USA! I was left alone at home from age 10, walked a mile home from school to an empty house. Then at 11 had to walk to a train station on my own, take a train 11 miles, have a mile walk through a town to school, then repeat on the way home, arriving to an empty house. Then I left home at 16, and lived very happily as a teenager without any adults!

No idea whereabouts in Ireland you are, but it's certainly not just a UK thing. If anything, I actually live in England now and it's a lot more uptight here than it was in Ireland, in my opinion and experience.

I don't mean to make this sound bad, but it does sound like maybe you have anxiety as you seem very fearful at the thought of children experiencing things that are quite normal. I honestly don't mean any offence by that. I just don't know why you'd think it's not ok for a 16yr old to be left alone when they can leave home at that age. I know you say just because you can, doesn't mean they should, but as someone who lived a really happy independent life moving out of home at 16yrs old, I don't see why I shouldn't have done that. I had a great experience and great life living without my family.

16 too young to be left alone!? I was working a 12 hour apprenticeship at 16, working away from home for a lot of it. I hope my son is as able as I was at 16.
out of interest what country do you live in?

If anything, UK kids are far too cosseted these days. I was taking a bus on my own to school at the age of 4. Including a quarter mile walk to/from the bus stops at either end. When I was 8 I often came home to an empty house and thought nothing of it. My parents had stuff to do, like putting food on the table. The idea that secondary school kids have to be met at the school gates these days astonishes me.

Guys seriously the OP lit the fuse here and then walked away around 20 pages ago, this was a classic goady thread and sad to see it was worked 🤷‍♀️

I stayed at home for a week on my own when I was 15. My parents and siblings went on holiday but I was in the middle of my GCSEs. My aunt checked on me daily but I was essentially left to my own devices. It was bloody marvellous. The house was lovely and quiet and tidy. I was totally gutted when they all came home and the house looked like a tip in less than an hour.

I’d be extremely concerned if a 16 year old couldn’t fend for themselves for a few days.

Heard about parents who recently moved to UK left 7 and 10 year old at home all day as parents had work meetings at office and kids had inset day.

In Scotland yer legally an adult at 16 unless in FTE, my parent's went and left me for 2 weeks when I was 16, fridge and freezer full of food, I survived and had an absolute ball

I don’t like your nasty comments about the cats (as an animal lover) - they are living creatures, and 16 is not too young to be left alone. You have no idea too if a neighbour or relative is calling round regularly to check up on the 16 year old.

My parents left me alone at 17, I hated it and I was scared and I would say I was fairly independent for my age.

I wouldn’t leave my kids alone and have now changed jobs so I am home when they get in, one is at secondary. I just feel they could walk I to anything or someone knock on the door / emergency at home. Not for me.