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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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9
SunnyEgg · 20/06/2023 18:15

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 18:07

I doubt anyone identified as a cat. It was a cow or something and we all know what the something is.

You don’t really know this. From the mother

‘She didn’t, however, and stayed in the classroom but her and her friend put their views across and clashed with another girl in the class who identifies as a cat

‘My daughter told the teacher that what they were learning was ridiculous and the girl identifying as a cat tried to argue that it wasn’t and that anyone could identify as anything.

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 18:16

Be honest. Would you have believed a word of this had ot not been recorded?

No I’d never have believed it would have gone so far. What the teacher was throwing out got crazier and crazier as she got more and more flustered. The choice they had was not to record it. Generally, I don’t think it sets a very good precedent for pupils to record their teachers.

Whatwouldscullydo · 20/06/2023 18:20

And if they hadn't recorded that teacher would have continued to brainwash all the kids in her class including some I expect are vulnerable. If the adults aren't doing their jobs and protecting all students then that needs exposing.

TheInterceptor · 20/06/2023 18:21

It's becoming clear of the need for students to record their 'educators'.

GodHelpTheOutcasts · 20/06/2023 18:21

I'm also confused why people are putting the child's name Crystal in quote marks.
That's her name presumably, so there's no need to sneeringly add quote marks when the same people don't add them for the cat girl.
Obvious classism.

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 18:23

SunnyEgg · 20/06/2023 18:15

You don’t really know this. From the mother

‘She didn’t, however, and stayed in the classroom but her and her friend put their views across and clashed with another girl in the class who identifies as a cat

‘My daughter told the teacher that what they were learning was ridiculous and the girl identifying as a cat tried to argue that it wasn’t and that anyone could identify as anything.

I just took my post from the details given at the beginning of the Daily Mail article which claims to quote the initial exchange from the tik tok which says ‘cow or something’.

Cailin66 · 20/06/2023 18:24

DataNotLore · 20/06/2023 12:40

What exactly were they whistleblowing? Being told off?

This is mob rule here and in the press now.

Mob rule ? Really? Versus the insanity of teachers pandering to delusional children who think they are cats and horses, so another species, and the ones thinking they are the moon, a planet, or the ones demanding a growing number of bonkers pronouns, or the ones thinking that it’s possible to change sex?

The pandering that disrupts the education of the children who go to school to learn their three R’s.

With people like you are fully in support of all of the above. With no consideration of the damage being done to all children.

ArabeIIaScott · 20/06/2023 18:29

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 18:23

I just took my post from the details given at the beginning of the Daily Mail article which claims to quote the initial exchange from the tik tok which says ‘cow or something’.

Those are presumably auto generated subtitles. They say 'cow' but the girl said 'cat', she just drops the 't'.

SunnyEgg · 20/06/2023 18:29

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 18:23

I just took my post from the details given at the beginning of the Daily Mail article which claims to quote the initial exchange from the tik tok which says ‘cow or something’.

There was another article with info from the mother

MargotBamborough · 20/06/2023 18:33

Cailin66 · 20/06/2023 18:24

Mob rule ? Really? Versus the insanity of teachers pandering to delusional children who think they are cats and horses, so another species, and the ones thinking they are the moon, a planet, or the ones demanding a growing number of bonkers pronouns, or the ones thinking that it’s possible to change sex?

The pandering that disrupts the education of the children who go to school to learn their three R’s.

With people like you are fully in support of all of the above. With no consideration of the damage being done to all children.

Yeah it's less mob rule and more like the French revolution. The fed up masses have decided enough is enough and are finally rising up against this nonsense inflicted upon them by an out of touch elite which doesn't give a shit about their welfare.

Cailin66 · 20/06/2023 18:41

MargotBamborough · 20/06/2023 18:33

Yeah it's less mob rule and more like the French revolution. The fed up masses have decided enough is enough and are finally rising up against this nonsense inflicted upon them by an out of touch elite which doesn't give a shit about their welfare.

They will all disappear into the ether once they realise the game is up. Now that Downing street has intervened - it is hopefully the beginning of the end. We've seen false starts on this before. So I'm hoping this time it's real. The fact Rishi was joking about it the other day shows to me they know full well. And so does the Labour and LD leaders. So I'll never ever consider those two men trustworthy on anything ever after this (they politics of it doesn't affect me as I'm not UK).

Can't believe how many years I've put up with abuse for this on line and how I've had to be so very careful at my workplace.

The last 10 years have been complete madness, and we are now beginning to see the kids damaged by this who took the hormones or did the surgeries and cop on when they hit about 25 that they've destroyed their bodies and that it was all built on sand.

booboo82 · 20/06/2023 18:46

No sympathy for her , she shouldn't be forcing her batshit ideology on to her students she should be sacked asap !

Cailin66 · 20/06/2023 19:07

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 14:42

Even the mother of “Crystal” said that when she was first told by her daughter “‘I have to say that when my daughter came home from school and told me what happened. I didn’t believe her, I thought she was a typical teenage girl exaggerating.”

It was only on listening to the recording that the daughter was vindicated.

However, the girl didn’t know her mother wouldn’t believe her before she made the recording. She didn’t even know what the teacher was going to come out and say before she started recording. Does the mother regularly disbelieve her when she quotes a teacher? Just as well she had a handy little recording to play her mum! Whose idea was it thento post on social media?

I think that's a bit unfair to the mum, the actual story is unbelievable if you think about it. Like who would believe it is happening. Certainly not if you haven't not been following this craziness of trans for years. Many people, especially woman I talk to have not one clue about any of this. In the UK the schools have been hiding it from the parents, some don't even tell them their child is transitioning or that they have changed pronouns. Parents are denied access to the sex ed material.

I think Crystal, if that is her name, she's a wise girl knew full well this is bonkers and knew the teacher was full of gender woo so she recorded it to demonstrate what is actually going on. We've now found out there is more than one cat, there is a horse, a dinosaurs and a moon. Up to now on here and elsewhere the TRA have been baiting us with it's all lies. They wanted to destroy us women and our rights because we stand in the way of their 'validation' and also the hate us, full on misogyny.

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 19:11

Whatwouldscullydo · 20/06/2023 18:20

And if they hadn't recorded that teacher would have continued to brainwash all the kids in her class including some I expect are vulnerable. If the adults aren't doing their jobs and protecting all students then that needs exposing.

Doesn’t sound like she was addressing a class just these 2 girls who she’d kept behind to speak to. It turned into something of a row with the girls getting the upper hand.

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 20/06/2023 19:28

I discussed this with a teenager today.
"Yeah, my teachers keep going on about gender and stuff, it's so boring. Do they think we're all stupid or something? Me and (friends) don't believe in it, you can't be a girl if you're really a boy, can you?"

Top marks to that teenager.

DepartureLounge · 20/06/2023 19:34

Immense harm has been done to teenage girls particularly in the last few years due to the utter nonsense taught to them in school by teachers.

And boys.

BoohooWoohoo · 20/06/2023 19:39

MargotBamborough · 20/06/2023 17:27

The teacher didn't deal with the bullying though. She made it a thousand times worse, especially now that Fluffy's gender identity is being discussed in the national media.

Maybe it's time for an adult to tell Fluffy that she can be a cat in her own time after school.

Indulging this has probably made any ridicule she faces far worse. Unless there are other furries at the school, this will be making it even harder to bond with her peers. Having friends at school make it so much easier to come in each day especially if she's from a chaotic home.

I hope that she's not been named and doxxed online. The adults around her bear a responsibility for her being in this position of ridicule.

OMG12 · 20/06/2023 19:47

The issue with posters such as @ilovesooty and @DataNotLore is they seem to be so far removed from reality they actually have no grasp on how society functions. They live in la la land created by people with extremely questionable motives but for some reason want to buy into it.

in order for language to work each series of sound(spoken) and symbols (written) has to mean exactly the same thing to everyone using them. Can you imagine the carnage if some people thought the word “stop” also included moving sideways, if the word helicopter included cars (and someone launched it off a building believing it could fly). Conversations only make sense if the words mean the same to everyone, otherwise it’s just people making guttural sounds or squiggles on paper. This especially means words cannot have circular definitions.

like another poster has pointed out, pin point definitions are extremely important in law. So important that words are often actually defined in the law to stop confusion arising. This is why it’s important to protect the definition of woman.

There seems a lot of discussion about how gender is as old as the houses. What is happening here is anachronistic. Many ancient religions did have concepts of male and female (generally presented as gods and goddesses). It was a grouping together of characteristics often stereotypically seen as male and female, male was projective usually female usually receptive. Ie having a penis or a vagina It’s one of the reasons why there is often a male sun god and female moon goddess. This gender split was a way of showing opposites, literally night and day. It was never meant to reflect actual humans. There was never any suggestion of changing genders. The moon goddess never became the sun god.

Of course there were examples of societies where some people existed seemingly In between -often eunachs or as priests, not tied into extremes symbolically containing both male and female elements (note this was not moving between sexes) as a way of symbolically being everything or being balanced, of not being distracted by stereotypical binary behaviours.

Whichever way you cut it, genders have always been based on stereotypes. Genders (until very recently) have been immutable when used. What people are saying when they say they are a different gender is that they believe in stereotypes of men and women, they believe that men and women are limited to behaving according to these stereotypes. If you don’t behave according to the stereotypes of your sex it must mean you are the other. Gender ideology is by its nature binary and inherently prejudiced and enforces stereotypes.it is a way of expressing power. Every single one of the 72 genders is an expression of these stereotypes ie prejudices. Being a feminist is completely incompatible with gender ideology, if you believe in gender ideology you are not a feminist. Some people call themselves feminists because it’s a term that certain people like using those people are pseudo liberals rather than actually supporting women (which never can include men).

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 20/06/2023 20:07

GodHelpTheOutcasts · 20/06/2023 18:21

I'm also confused why people are putting the child's name Crystal in quote marks.
That's her name presumably, so there's no need to sneeringly add quote marks when the same people don't add them for the cat girl.
Obvious classism.

Eh?

I put her name in quotes because it’s not her real name. It’s a pseudonym for Twitter.

No snobbery from me, I can assure you.

OMG12 · 20/06/2023 20:10

CecilyP · 20/06/2023 19:11

Doesn’t sound like she was addressing a class just these 2 girls who she’d kept behind to speak to. It turned into something of a row with the girls getting the upper hand.

It’s easy to get the upper hand in any argument where the other party is talking utter bollocks, even a couple of teenagers can destroy the position of a university educated fully grown professional. Let’s face it a toddler could destroy that teachers position - reality has that advantage

MargotBamborough · 20/06/2023 20:11

BoohooWoohoo · 20/06/2023 19:39

Maybe it's time for an adult to tell Fluffy that she can be a cat in her own time after school.

Indulging this has probably made any ridicule she faces far worse. Unless there are other furries at the school, this will be making it even harder to bond with her peers. Having friends at school make it so much easier to come in each day especially if she's from a chaotic home.

I hope that she's not been named and doxxed online. The adults around her bear a responsibility for her being in this position of ridicule.

Absolutely.

The kindest thing an adult could say to Fluffy is, "Listen, I know there's a lot of advice out there about being authentic and being true to yourself and that's great and everything, but at school, kids who don't really fit in, or who are noticeable for the wrong reasons, tend to have a really hard time. So if you want your life at school to be easier, if you want to make friends and just be considered a normal person, identifying as a cat isn't going to help with that. And in fact, the same thing is pretty much true in the adult world. So if I were you I would just quietly go back to being Isabella and she/her pronouns, buy yourself a cool new top and maybe get a new hobby. There are some pretty nice kids in the drama club, maybe try that?"

JuvenileEmu · 20/06/2023 20:12

This is all starting to make me so fucking angry. All the children involved have been utterly failed by the adults. The children bullied and intimidated into denying reality and being told not to do that is despicable. The poor child who has reached teenage being lied to by the adults around them that changing sex/ species is not just possible, but a normal and healthy thing to do.

The adults have opted out of being adults, because that's the easy thing to do. What a shit show. The teacher should be utterly ashamed of herself, but I doubt she has the intelligence to understand how completely she's failed in her job.

KTheGrey · 20/06/2023 20:13

I feel pretty sorry for her. She has been told that's the party line and she Must Spout It. We used to have sotto voce conversations in the office and the staff room about our opinions on agreeing kids' pronouns (which were v much "it's not a neutral act and doing it behind parents' backs is not ok") but we just didn't discuss it with the kids. I have never known a topic you didn't discuss candidly with the students if they asked, but this one I would not touch.

OMG12 · 20/06/2023 20:30

KTheGrey · 20/06/2023 20:13

I feel pretty sorry for her. She has been told that's the party line and she Must Spout It. We used to have sotto voce conversations in the office and the staff room about our opinions on agreeing kids' pronouns (which were v much "it's not a neutral act and doing it behind parents' backs is not ok") but we just didn't discuss it with the kids. I have never known a topic you didn't discuss candidly with the students if they asked, but this one I would not touch.

I think it’s very clear that this teacher is spouting her own opinion. If she was simply toeing the line she would not be using words like “despicable”.

If teachers are against this, who is drawing the line to toe? And why?

it’s not the government, is it the head teachers? Why? What makes them have different opinions to teachers. Is it the unions? If so, they are there to represent the teachers, they should be toeing the line set by teachers. Who is allowing harmful pressure groups like stonewall (who have long since lost any ability to represent most gay peoples interests and actively campaigned against their interests with their “lesbians try a bit of female cock, like it or be prejudiced” campaign),

every second a school is dealing with this shit show is a second lost to teaching. Schools and teachers are leaving themselves wide open for future law suits from students who feel that they were failed on safeguarding. When fluffy is 30, realises that the schools pandering to her cat identity that’s probably a mask for all number of issues that weren’t addressed by the school was left with life long problems she will no doubt employ one of the many lawyers who will be specialising in this shit show to sue the hell out of the school.

SunnyEgg · 20/06/2023 20:37

OMG12 · 20/06/2023 20:30

I think it’s very clear that this teacher is spouting her own opinion. If she was simply toeing the line she would not be using words like “despicable”.

If teachers are against this, who is drawing the line to toe? And why?

it’s not the government, is it the head teachers? Why? What makes them have different opinions to teachers. Is it the unions? If so, they are there to represent the teachers, they should be toeing the line set by teachers. Who is allowing harmful pressure groups like stonewall (who have long since lost any ability to represent most gay peoples interests and actively campaigned against their interests with their “lesbians try a bit of female cock, like it or be prejudiced” campaign),

every second a school is dealing with this shit show is a second lost to teaching. Schools and teachers are leaving themselves wide open for future law suits from students who feel that they were failed on safeguarding. When fluffy is 30, realises that the schools pandering to her cat identity that’s probably a mask for all number of issues that weren’t addressed by the school was left with life long problems she will no doubt employ one of the many lawyers who will be specialising in this shit show to sue the hell out of the school.

I agree with you the teacher was very emotionally involved

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