To feel sorry for the teacher who was secretly recorded?

[Forster2018]

Link to article here:

DSDs (intersex is mostly seen as an outdated and sometimes offensive term) do not make people who have them a third sex. That is just not true. Every person with a DSD is either male or female, just like every other person who is or ever has been on this planet.

Individuals with DSDs and some organisations for those with DSDs have asked that their biological, medical issues are left out of discussion about identity and gender,as.they have nothing to do with each other.

For example https://differently-normal.com/author/clarecais/

So you can be politically incorrect over incontinence issues but to talk about biological sex and what a girl or boy is, is off limit on the basis of belief and not potentially upsetting others who may have a problem.

What? The teacher talked about biological sex. They were clear that biological sex and gender are different. They said that you can identify differently to your biological sex.

I am surprised that this is contentious. Are you working from the premise that trans people don’t exist?

Talk about being crazy and you've immediately suggested that someone should be in an asylum.

No, they definitely talked about being crazy, whether they suggested someone should be in an asylum prior to that will presumably come out from the written statements that the teacher correctly suggested be written.

Noblegiraffe, genuinely I struggle with your double standards and the fact you defend all teachers on everything citing recruitment as the issue to hide behind

I haven’t defended this teacher on the basis of recruitment issues. There does, however, seem to be a lot of abuse being directed at this teacher which in my opinion is vastly overblown, and also people are making claims about what happened that are not true when you listen to the recording.

WE ALL should be standing up to this noise rather than hiding behind comments like mortgages and recruitment crisis.

I haven’t.

It was a genuine question. “Wetting yourself laughing” is what I would consider to be an extremely common way to say “laughing a lot” and being told that I am close to insulting those pupils by suggesting they are literally wetting themselves was completely baffling and the only reason I could think that someone would be confused by this was that English wasn’t their first language.

Noblegiraffe, there is no such thing as a trans kid so yes, I’m saying they don’t exist. What does exist however is a growing cohort who have co morbid mental health issues who are being fed lies that humans can change sex.

No wonder kids are confused when they feel alienated from regressive societal stereotypes which state that if you like dresses and dolls you’re a girl and vice versa. It’s the bloody stereotyping inherent in this idealogy which is truly dangerous.

And if any of these girls were my daughters I’d be immensely proud of the way they conducted themselves and stood up to a quite frankly aggressive teacher.

What has me scratching my head most about this threadthe most is the amount of overstreched teachers who have found the time on a monday to argue on mumsnet for hours.

Yeah, that occurred to me too.

Noblegiraffe, there is no such thing as a trans kid so yes, I’m saying they don’t exist.

I didn’t say trans kids, I said trans people.

If you disagree that people can identify with a gender different to their biological sex, are you saying that trans people don’t exist?

Because the law doesn’t agree.

Oooh what a gotcha.

I’m part time. HTH.

Just an observation, didnt mean to hit a nerve jeez.

There's a kid at DD's school who was a boy when starting reception but rebranded to a girl upon starting y1. They're in y2 now and DD will say 'she' and call the child 'Mary'. But she remembers very clearly when Mary was Steve and has said to me many times 'She isn't really a girl, she just wants to be'. I do worry about her getting in hot water by saying the wrong thing. It's hard to know how to help them navigate these situations.

There's no law that says everyone has to believe there are trans people!!

It's a difficult situation to be in, as a parent. You want to teach them to think for themselves, but if they deviate from the groupthink it can lead to them being in trouble.

It all reminds me of Eastern Germany, where you would think something but never say it out loud.

My children are grown up now, but I would hate to be in your situation.

The teacher did not state that people can change sex.

There are multiple genders. There always have been. Nobody ever manages to actually refute this, and people who try generally end up resorting to insults.

I really feel for the "cat" child here. This must be horrific for them. Of course you're all aware that, that identifying as something else can be a trauma response? I lived in a dream world for years for that reason, I genuinely believed it myself for awhile.

People are complicated.

People are complicated.

Indeed they are. So why are the schools trying to make then all think the same way?

@DataNotLore you are consistently mixing up "gender" (a politicala and sociological concept, of which there are two) and "gender identity".

Basing reality and educational policy and practice on people's escape into dream worlds as a reaction to trauma is not sensible.

@DataNotLore that is a fair point about it being a trauma response. Who know what has made this child identify as a cat?

However, as much as they are fully entitled to identify as one, others are fully entitled to not accept it. One person's rights/thoughts/ feelings do not trump another person's.

"There are multiple genders. There always have been"
Doesn't make them real though does it.
Belief in gender is not compulsory and most people do not believe in gender.
Gender in this context is a construct based on outdated sexist and homophobic stereotypes. To believe in gender you have to believe in the stereotypes of how a boy or girl should dress and behave. Schools are not allowed to teach stereotypes as facts eg boys have short hair & play with certain toys or girls dress a certain way..

What. Is. A. Gender?

Seriously.

Can anyone explain?

"Not accepting it" does not entitle someone to insult them. They called the child crazy. I'd be very surprised to hear that this is the first time they'd dished out abuse to the child.

The teacher is trying to get this to stop. The girls in the recording are using the trans issue to deflect.

It's a mess.

There are multiple genders in the same way there are multiple mythical creatures.

Multiple genders my arse.

Two sexes
Infinite personalities.

Gender is a made up social construct. I can believe that people believe in them without believing they’re real. You know, a bit like Santa Claus.

X post @MargotBamborough 😄

History & anthropology not your strongpoint then

"The teacher did not state that people can change sex." True. She did not.

She told the 2 girls that there were 3 sexes. "There are actually 3 biological sexes" she said.