To feel sorry for the teacher who was secretly recorded?

[Forster2018]

Link to article here:

Are people happy for their children to be recorded all day in school?

That's where this is leading.

The teacher was completely out of order!

As pp have said recording is common in universities.

If people was willing to accept that pupils have the right to secretly record what goes on in a classroom then teachers should also have the right to record what goes on on the classroom as a way of defending themselves, not necessarily in this topic about which I have absolutely no interest.

There's cctv over a lot of my children's school anyway - corridors playgrounds - open parts of toilet areas - some classroom mostly with expensive equipment in currently I think.

It's never been discussed with pupils or us but seems to be generally accepted and it comes up when it's reviewed to find pupils causing problems so is widely known.

I don’t know if they do acknowledge this deep down.

We don’t know if there even is a student who identifies as a cat and is upset or it’s the teacher who is emotional. She shows she’s unreliable already by saying they said asylum when they didn’t.

The reaction and poor argument is from someone who is not being logical and calm

Also was there not recording in schools during lockdown?

You think it's correct that a teacher threatens a child with expulsion for using the word 'crazy'?

"I don’t know if they do acknowledge this deep down."

Yeah maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just hopeful people haven't completely lost their minds. Maybe it's just past experience shows they can't argue well. Hence the easy catch all "no debate" mantra.

100%.

I have a lot of sympathy for the manifold pressures that teachers are under, but in this situation I only have sympathy for the kids. Like many pp, I regard them as whistleblowers.

I have three kids now in their teens and twenties who have been completely brainwashed about trans ideology in school over the last 10-15 years and I had no idea about any of it until it started coming out in the form of imaginary identity issues and bitter, hateful rows about my and their father's refusal/inability to go along with this coercive, unscientific rubbish. It's very difficult to address any of this stuff by the time young, formative and sometimes vulnerable minds have been manipulated by trusted adults over a sustained period, just as it's difficult to free a young person who has fallen prey to any other cult. It has immeasurably damaged our family and I work every day against the gradient created by it.

I would have been very grateful if there had been a fearless, questioning child in the class who recorded some of the arrant nonsense they were being taught as fact and blew the gaff on social media. I wish it had happened years ago. "Crystal" may or may not be a troublemaker or a bully but her peers have been well served by her cockiness on this occasion.

And just as an aside, any teacher in this day and age who isn't awake to the ever-present possibility of being recorded on someone's phone at any time just isn't awake at all imo. Fails all round. I hope she is fired and sent for "re-education" herself, although she's only the tip of a large iceberg clearly.

A lot of your posts seem based on what you suppose rather than the evidence though. The teacher doesn't even focus on what aspects of the interaction the girls should have dealt with differently. She doesn't discuss how to move forward. She just flips because,

"You're questioning someone else's IDENTITY"

Which really, to me,.misses the point you're trying to focus on. If this was about them being bullies or unkindness then it needed to be about that. Not the ver boten nature of their opinions.

This sounds to me like a power struggle. The teacher is trying to assert her authority over the girls by forcing them to accept absurd assertions. When she fails, she starts to threaten and try to shame/smear them, and their families.

It’s a damn good thing that teacher was recorded. If your argument against there being no filming in school is to protect teachers from being called out for incredibly wrong and ignorant practices then yes, YABU.

You don't need a GRC to use facilities. AIUI most people who have one never actually see it; the Gender Recognition Panel send it direct to the Registrar General who then causes a new birth certificate to be issued.

If you identify somebody as having a GRC then you commit an offence so demanding one for access to changing places etc is riven with problems.

I agree that trans people, with or without a GRC, raise issues for the bodies governing sports such as cycling etc. It's soluble if people turn their minds to it and stop shouting from their own premises - whether Stonewall or Gender Critical Feminists.

Wow, isn’t it amazing how you need no proof to believe the teachers claims, despite the kids saying it was untrue. Meanwhile you make no mention of the teacher caught on video bullying children, which is rather inconsistent.
So do you think bullying is bad, or not?

The recording literally starts with "you've really upset someone".

To me, it sounds like the teacher is clamping down on bullying and yes, kids should be expelled for it.

The kids then bring sex and gender into. The kids conflate sex with gender, not the teacher. It's the kids using trans issues to deflect from their bullying behaviour.

Nobody on this thread knows what was said before the recording starts and therefore it is impossible to draw any conclusion regarding whether the teacher’s initial intervention was appropriate.

A teacher telling children that they must respect another child’s cat identity is coercion. Asserting the fact that anyone who believes they are a cat is crazy is not bullying, even if the cat identified child is present, because the girls should not have been placed in the position where they were forced into defending reality.

It seems likely to me that the girls were responding defensively to the teacher’s bullying or attempted coercion from earlier in the lesson, however the teacher tried to frame it.

If the teacher was insisting the girls must respect another pupil’s self-identification as a cat, then the teacher is entirely at fault. You cannot lie to pupils about another pupil and insist they respect the lie and expect it to go unchallenged.

The correct approach a teacher should take to a child insisting they are a cat is to tell them off if the teacher believes they are deliberately being difficult or to summon some kind of medical help if the teacher believes the pupil is suffering some kind of delusion.

If another child is insisting they are a cat and the teacher is waiting for the medical help to arrive and the girls are calling the child crazy, then the teacher would be justified in telling them off for bullying. I think we all know that is not what is happening here.

Well, the school has now said that the teacher's behaviour was unacceptable:

"A spokesman admitted to the Mail that the teacher should have acted differently, by 'ensuring that pupils' views are listened to' and 'encouraging them to ask questions and engage in discussion' – instead of angrily shutting down debate on a controversial issue. The spokesman said they would make sure 'such events do not take place in the future'."

And for those saying the girls should have gone through correct channels - remember that there are parents who have been reported to social services by teachers when they have questioned gender ideology in schools.

This is a war on harmful, regressive ideology in schools and frankly, we need to give parents and children the tools to fight it successfully.

Does anyone have the link? I can't find it

Why bother? I don't think that most of the people here have bothered to listen to it

Yes, it's time all interactions between students and teachers were recorded. As a parent I have no issues with that at all.

You're contradicting yourself a bit here.

If the only effect a GRC has is allowing people to falsify their legal documents have their marriage or death certified under the opposite sex to the one they actually are, why is it so important that they are allowed to do so?

Why should anyone be allowed to do that, as a matter of fact?

And even if you accept that some people find their biological sex so upsetting that they must be allowed to do this, why on earth should someone who isn't medically recognised as suffering from this condition be allowed to do it? Why on earth would someone without gender dysphoria need a gender recognition certificate?

As for the rest of your post, yes it is true that nobody is checking for gender recognition certificates on toilet doors, and that in reality trans people are already using single sex spaces intended for members of the opposite sex. It's also true that people who are known to be biologically male but who claim to have a transgender identity and do not have a gender recognition certificate have already been allowed to, for example, serve their prison sentences in women's prisons despite being a clear danger to women, and compete in women's sports despite having a clear competitive advantage over female athletes.

This is wrong.

It has always been wrong.

The fact that it has been happening for years does not make it right.

The fact that it has been happening for years is also not a justification for it to continue, or become more widespread, because 20 years ago the number of trans people was so small the chances were you would never meet one in the ladies' changing rooms at M&S or in the ladies' toilets at the theatre, and even if you did, they would probably have been making a genuine effort to blend in.

But now we are all supposed to affirm people who identify as cat gender, and people like Dylan Mulvaney who appear to have a period fetish, now Laurel Hubbard is allowed to compete as a woman at the Olympics and universities are putting posters up in the toilets telling femake students not to question the presence of male students in their single sex spaces because those male students are very vulnerable and their identities matter and they have every right to be there, we need to push back on this. This is the point in time at which women need to stand up and say, "Actually, no. We don't agree with this, we weren't consulted, we didn't consent. Society needs to find a way of accommodating trans people that isn't simply women giving up their spaces and their rights without complaint. We didn't create this problem, it's not our responsibility to solve it."

Going full self ID is clearly not the way forward. Especially since it would create a presumption in law that anyone with a gender recognition certificate should be granted free and full access to opposite sex spaces (including prisons) which would have to be challenged on an individual level, rather than the other way round.

Well frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if they were being pick on, because their dipshit parents hadn’t told them that no, they can’t pretend to be a fucking cat at school.

You're beginning to sound a bit odd.

We can all listen to the clip and read the transcript and it just doesn't work for you to fixate on one element of one party's behaviour to the exclusion of everything else that goes on.

It's not useful to discuss it looking through one tiny lens.

And even if I agreed with you, and felt that the girls were abhorrent, completely beyond the pale....it still stands to reason that they're children and that the responsibility for educating and resolving the situation lies with the adult here. She fails entirely to discharge that responsibility.

Demanding any pupil who is ever unkind, unthinking, prejudiced or bullies another is expelled would empty schools pretty fast and do absolutely nothing to change behaviour.

The recording literally starts with "you've really upset someone".

That is the teacher’s interpretation the asylum part. They didn’t.

She’s reacting and is too emotional

If there really is a a student who identifies as a cat (rather than joking, how likely this is the case anyway that someone identifies as a cat) the correct response is to talk about appropriate language for mental health issues.

‘You said they should be in an asylum’ as a response is not appropriate in any case. It’s not even the right phrasing,

Then the rest shows why the teacher was so upset. She strongly believes in gender ideology and felt she was losing grip of the discussion

So she had to resort to undermining and threatening. It was really poor