Page 16 | To feel sorry for the teacher who was secretly recorded?

MsRosley · 19/06/2023 11:45

Calling a kid 'despicable' for not complying with her idiotic gender religion? Absolutely deserves the sack. Her behaviour was appalling. The only way we're going to get this misogynistic and homophobic nonsense out of school is by making an examples of people like that teacher.

Rasputina · 19/06/2023 11:45

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:43

I don't think people are saying the teacher shouldn't have intervened.

So we agree that the teacher was correct to tell pupils not to upset other pupils by calling them crazy, regardless of whether they think that they are a cat?

And that the girls shouldn’t be calling other pupils “crazy” or “weird”?

Because those on this thread calling the girls heroes don’t seem to think the girls did anything wrong.

If the girls called a specific pupil crazy then of course it's wrong. That does not excuse literally everything else the teacher did.

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:45

Did they call a specific pupil names or say they were crazy or just say it was crazy to identify as a cat? Which it is.

I think if there is another pupil in the room who identifies as a cat, which it appears there is, then saying “if you identify as a cat you are crazy” it seems kind of a reach to suggest they weren’t referring to that pupil.

SunnyEgg · 19/06/2023 11:46

Did they call a specific pupil names or say they were crazy or just say it was crazy to identify as a cat? Which it is.

What was actually said. Was there a student who identified as a cat, not just joking around, we don’t hear what they are responding to

TooOldForThisNonsense · 19/06/2023 11:46

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:32

Gender reassignment may be a protected characteristic, but it is still nonsense, and even though it is nonsense, it only covers men who want to be women and women who want to be men, not people who want to be cats

I never said it protected people who want to be cats. The girls were talking about willies and vaginas, not cats.

You might think it is nonsense but that doesn’t stop it being a protected characteristic and teachers have to be mindful of that.

so is a belief that sex is binary and immutable a PC, and the teacher did not seem mindful of that.

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:46

Rasputina · 19/06/2023 11:45

If the girls called a specific pupil crazy then of course it's wrong. That does not excuse literally everything else the teacher did.

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And the teacher was also correct to say that sex and gender are not the same thing?

SunnyEgg · 19/06/2023 11:47

How does someone identify as a cat anyway. Where does that make sense

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:47

TooOldForThisNonsense · 19/06/2023 11:46

so is a belief that sex is binary and immutable a PC, and the teacher did not seem mindful of that.

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The teacher fucked up on the definition of intersex, no doubt there. That’s a factual error.

They did not, however, say that you can change sex. They were very clear, in fact, that sex and gender are not the same thing.

MargotBamborough · 19/06/2023 11:47

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:43

I don't think people are saying the teacher shouldn't have intervened.

So we agree that the teacher was correct to tell pupils not to upset other pupils by calling them crazy, regardless of whether they think that they are a cat?

And that the girls shouldn’t be calling other pupils “crazy” or “weird”?

Because those on this thread calling the girls heroes don’t seem to think the girls did anything wrong.

The girls deny saying that someone who identifies as a cat should be in an asylum.

As for the rest of it, it sounds to me like a hypothetical conversation. If they are talking about an actual child at the school who claims to identify as a cat then the teacher should tell them off for making unkind comments, not lecture them about gender ideology. Even if the child in question is clearly just an annoying attention seeker.

But if they're just using an example of someone they saw on Tiktok who identifies as a cat, rather than talking about someone they actually know, I think it's fine to say that's crazy. Because it is.

Rasputina · 19/06/2023 11:47

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:46

And the teacher was also correct to say that sex and gender are not the same thing?

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Yes, that would be correct, but also you have to bear in mind the boundaries are being blurred and kids are being encouraged to use both words interchangeably. Still doesn't excuse the way she spoke to them or the offensive third-gender stuff. I'm in no way saying the girls are perfect and the teacher is the devil.

tobee · 19/06/2023 11:48

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:43

I don't think people are saying the teacher shouldn't have intervened.

So we agree that the teacher was correct to tell pupils not to upset other pupils by calling them crazy, regardless of whether they think that they are a cat?

And that the girls shouldn’t be calling other pupils “crazy” or “weird”?

Because those on this thread calling the girls heroes don’t seem to think the girls did anything wrong.

As I just said you're trying to reframe the issue. You're pretty much ignoring the threats and insults that the teacher used to the girls "despicable", suggesting they need to change schools and see a more senior teacher for more education on gender issues.

You're not going to address this though are you? It's like Boris Johnson defenders trying to reframe the issue of him lying in parliament as an issue about whether he ate cake or not. A classic tactic used by those who have a flimsy argument of their defence.

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:49

They were talking about a pupil in the class. It’s pretty obvious from the start of the recording. Why else would the other pupil be upset about it?

SunnyEgg · 19/06/2023 11:49

Lifescary · 19/06/2023 11:45

For the avoidance of doubt I was not criticising the girls but praising them. I admire what they have done and admire them for controlling the narrative.

I used the phrase controlling the narrative in reply to them being described as threatened and bullied which I thought demeaned them. It made them seem a bit feeble which they are not.

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Fair enough I agree with you. They showed the weakness of the teacher’s response. At 13 too

Unfortunately the teacher was able to use threats of get out and training due to authority

But yes they did very well, and without the voice recording would have little recourse

tobee · 19/06/2023 11:50

AutumnCrow · 19/06/2023 11:44

There are hundreds of posts replying to a badly written opening post by 'a teacher', with no further engagement from the OP.

Just saying.

Yes I noticed that. A familiar tactic, usually used to throw a grenade instead of a debate. Pull the pin & retreat.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2023 11:50

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:43

I don't think people are saying the teacher shouldn't have intervened.

So we agree that the teacher was correct to tell pupils not to upset other pupils by calling them crazy, regardless of whether they think that they are a cat?

And that the girls shouldn’t be calling other pupils “crazy” or “weird”?

Because those on this thread calling the girls heroes don’t seem to think the girls did anything wrong.

You are 13.
You are being told to respect catkid by a teacher who insists on telling you that you MUST believe there are multiple genders and if you don't you will be sent to reeducation.

Are we seriously saying that 13 year old kids being gaslight with this nonsense should be the adults in the room and behave better, when they've been disempowered to this degree in the first place???

If they are acting up because of this nonsense, maybe the nonsense needs looking at first - not the kids behaviour. A sense of real and tangible injustice isn't going to lend itself to impeccable behaviour - its going to lead to protests and emotional outbursts in hormone filled kids. Cos thats kids. And teachers need to be able to handle that and understand the injustice those kids are facing.

SauronsArsehole · 19/06/2023 11:51

MargotBamborough · 19/06/2023 11:28

All you're doing is demonstrating how much rubbish it all is.

Saying someone can identify as a different gender to their birth sex is like saying someone can identify as a different star sign to their favourite colour.

Sex and gender are two different things, and one of them is real and the other is imaginary. Why this presumption that the norm is for everyone to have a gender that matches their sex? Wouldn't it make more sense to say, "Hey trans people! Great news! Nobody else has an identity which matches their genitalia either! You're not different. You're not special. You're just an individual, like everyone else. But you also have to live in society, like everyone else, so we can't just exempt you from the rules which apply to everyone else."

The girls were absolutely correct when they said if you have a willy you're a boy and if you have a vagina you're a girl.

If you think what makes someone a boy or a girl is about gender rather than sex then perhaps you could explain to us all what the fuckity fuck you understand gender to actually be.

Gender reassignment may be a protected characteristic, but it is still nonsense, and even though it is nonsense, it only covers men who want to be women and women who want to be men, not people who want to be cats.

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Quite.

sex is rooted in law because it is important, it’s fixed and there are very specific needs for men and for women.

gender is imaginary.

It’s in your head.

It’s how you feel and on any given day we can feel multiple things about ourselves.

So why the fuck have we taken something tangible (sex) and bastardised the laws around it to include something nebulous? (Gender)

the gender reassignment law needs to be repealed because gender is now so nebulous it can mean anything and the law isn’t no longer doing what it should - protect female spaces, protect women and children. And protect men, sometimes from themselves.

Bromptotoo · 19/06/2023 11:51

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:29

If we agree that a pupil who identifies as a cat is likely mentally unwell and therefore vulnerable, then isn’t that even more reason for a teacher to tell off a pupil who upsets them by calling them crazy?

I am astonished that there seem to be some on here who think that the teacher should not have intervened in an unpleasant interaction involving name-calling because they too think the pupil is crazy.

I'm wondering how many people responding to what's being taught are actually in the UK. Some of this stuff sounds as if it's echoing over the pond to the USA.

UK law is what it is. Gender ReAssignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. Those who can comply with the (currently over medicalised and onerous) requirements of the Gender Recognition Act can get a new birth certificate in their adopted, ie preferred, gender. The only real world effect of that is than they can marry and ultimately have their death certified in their adopted gender.

Recognition via that process has, ignoring for now an open legal case in Scotland, no other practical effect. Nothing to do with toilets, changing rooms or even which prison you go to.

We need to cool down on this stuff and raise eyes above navels.

QuickWash · 19/06/2023 11:51

I am astonished that there seem to be some on here who think that the teacher should not have intervened in an unpleasant interaction involving name-calling because they too think the pupil is crazy.

I and many other pp have said over and over again, that if this was about children being unkind and picking on or behaving badly towards another individual then of course teachers need to step in.

The teacher could and should have explored what had happened (she comes in all guns blazing, only a fool does this in hearing one side of the tale with kids), she could and should have talked about how the conversation made the other party feel and why that's not great and then discussed with them how to resolve the issues and how to move forward from here. Maybe with some thought as to apologies or agreeing how they would interact with the other party from this point. She could and should have listened to the girls. She could, if she felt she was right, have explained the basis for her intervention and decision making and ensured they understood

She did none of it. Do you honestly think the other party was well served by this interaction?

JudgeJ · 19/06/2023 11:53

Forster2018 · 19/06/2023 06:20

Link to article here:

If people was willing to accept that pupils have the right to secretly record what goes on in a classroom then teachers should also have the right to record what goes on on the classroom as a way of defending themselves, not necessarily in this topic about which I have absolutely no interest.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 19/06/2023 11:54

SunnyEgg · 19/06/2023 11:46

Did they call a specific pupil names or say they were crazy or just say it was crazy to identify as a cat? Which it is.

What was actually said. Was there a student who identified as a cat, not just joking around, we don’t hear what they are responding to

Quite. We don’t know if it was just being talked about in the abstract or if there was an actual individual who ID as a cat. In any event “cat” isn’t a gender so the PC of gender has no relevance, as that involves changing the characteristics of sex

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2023 11:55

You're pretty much ignoring the threats and insults that the teacher used to the girls "despicable", suggesting they need to change schools and see a more senior teacher for more education on gender issues.

I said it wasn’t a good pupil/teacher interaction. Despicable was a bad word to use. She was wrong to describe what they were saying as homophobia (although arguable that it was transphobia). It’s also reasonable for pupils who appear to be insulting minority groups to be referred to a teacher for a conversation instead of applying a sanction. Statements being written is also standard where there was an incident that needs getting to the bottom of.

The outrage and the pile-ons are utterly disproportionate to what was said.

DataNotLore · 19/06/2023 11:56

QuickWash · 19/06/2023 11:51

I am astonished that there seem to be some on here who think that the teacher should not have intervened in an unpleasant interaction involving name-calling because they too think the pupil is crazy.

I and many other pp have said over and over again, that if this was about children being unkind and picking on or behaving badly towards another individual then of course teachers need to step in.

The teacher could and should have explored what had happened (she comes in all guns blazing, only a fool does this in hearing one side of the tale with kids), she could and should have talked about how the conversation made the other party feel and why that's not great and then discussed with them how to resolve the issues and how to move forward from here. Maybe with some thought as to apologies or agreeing how they would interact with the other party from this point. She could and should have listened to the girls. She could, if she felt she was right, have explained the basis for her intervention and decision making and ensured they understood

She did none of it. Do you honestly think the other party was well served by this interaction?

I suspect that the child being picked on has been subject to abuse for some time and the teacher knew exactly what was going on.

RedToothBrush · 19/06/2023 11:56

She did none of it. Do you honestly think the other party was well served by this interaction?

If CatKid exists, I bet they are having a cracking day at school today, cos Miss handled things so well.

tobee · 19/06/2023 11:56

The teacher "comes in all guns blazing"

Not unusual when you're desperately trying to promote something you know deep down is ridiculous.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 19/06/2023 11:57

Bromptotoo · 19/06/2023 11:51

I'm wondering how many people responding to what's being taught are actually in the UK. Some of this stuff sounds as if it's echoing over the pond to the USA.

UK law is what it is. Gender ReAssignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. Those who can comply with the (currently over medicalised and onerous) requirements of the Gender Recognition Act can get a new birth certificate in their adopted, ie preferred, gender. The only real world effect of that is than they can marry and ultimately have their death certified in their adopted gender.

Recognition via that process has, ignoring for now an open legal case in Scotland, no other practical effect. Nothing to do with toilets, changing rooms or even which prison you go to.

We need to cool down on this stuff and raise eyes above navels.

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U.K. law is what it is, unfortunately too many institutions, people, and workplaces have instead accepted Stonewall’s campaigning position as the law, which is why we now have people without a GRC trying to use facilities or get into sports for the opposite sex. If we were actually following the actual law it would be much clearer.