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AIBU?

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Original poster

Adam Kay and his husband’s babies

434 replies

MatildaTheCat · 18/06/2023 17:38

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I read in the paper this morning that AK and his DH have welcomed TWO babies into their lives, born to two different surrogates. One child is six months old and their sibling is two months old.

I genuinely cannot wrap my head around this. It seems so very odd to me. Is it a case of ‘one each’ or ‘get the baby stages over asap’?

Obviously nobody but the two parents can answer this but AIBU to find this really quite disturbing?

OP posts:
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6
Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 15:24

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 14:39

So Adam and his partner did not buy a baby. They used a surrogate. I cannot see the difference between this and one of my gay friends who used a sperm bank. Sorry.

Yes they bought a baby.

If your gay friend used a sperm donor to get pregnant and then carried her own baby herself then you must see that there is a world of difference between that and paying to use a woman’s body to carry a child with the intention of removing that child from their mother shortly after birth.

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:27

nothingcomestonothing · 09/10/2023 15:00

You can't see the difference between buying some sperm, and buying two humans and renting two other humans' bodies to grow those humans in?

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I can see that the baby would finish up with two loving parents as it would if born to a gay female couple. I do not see surrogacy as immoral no. Would you see surrogacy as immoral if it was a women unable to carry her own child who had used a surrogate to carry her own egg and her partner's sperm?

Mummaaaaah · 09/10/2023 15:31

Why 6 months and 2 months? Surely they should have had them from birth? Thats a long time not to bond with them/them to bond with someone else ?mum

ArabeIIaScott · 09/10/2023 15:35

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:27

I can see that the baby would finish up with two loving parents as it would if born to a gay female couple. I do not see surrogacy as immoral no. Would you see surrogacy as immoral if it was a women unable to carry her own child who had used a surrogate to carry her own egg and her partner's sperm?

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Yes.

nothingcomestonothing · 09/10/2023 15:38

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:27

I can see that the baby would finish up with two loving parents as it would if born to a gay female couple. I do not see surrogacy as immoral no. Would you see surrogacy as immoral if it was a women unable to carry her own child who had used a surrogate to carry her own egg and her partner's sperm?

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Yes I see surrogacy for any reason as wrong. Do you think people should be allowed to buy and sell a three year old? Or a ten year old? If not, why is it ok to do so with a baby?

A newborn knows it's birth mother, that is all it knows, and is unable to make sense of being removed from her. This removal can cause significant trauma which can be life long. So a baby born to a lesbian couple is not equivalent as it isn't removed from its birth mother. I don't think the wants of adults make the risk of life long trauma to children ok. No matter the sex of the purchasers, no matter their fertility status, their financial means, how much love they have to give. Buying and selling humans is wrong.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2023 15:38

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:27

I can see that the baby would finish up with two loving parents as it would if born to a gay female couple. I do not see surrogacy as immoral no. Would you see surrogacy as immoral if it was a women unable to carry her own child who had used a surrogate to carry her own egg and her partner's sperm?

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Yes I would.

Why wouldn't I?

Are you trying to force team surrogacy support 'because gay rights?'

That's blackmail.

Surrogacy is baby trafficking.

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:54

Surrogacy is a quite legitimate option for many women who are not able to carry their own eggs. Surrogacy is not baby trafficking at all. I have never understood the extreme response to it on mumsnet.

VestaTilley · 09/10/2023 16:33

He’s absolutely awful. There’s a good Twitter thread running today about how the coverage of surrogacy is so one sided. https://x.com/surrogconcern/status/1711308095517778400?s=46&t=jrPORwBVh_5ZMBrv2oyvRw

https://x.com/surrogconcern/status/1711308095517778400?s=46&t=jrPORwBVh_5ZMBrv2oyvRw

WickedSerious · 09/10/2023 16:47

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2023 13:45

If he's been mis-sold parenthood on insta, perhaps he should return the goods and ask for a full refund.

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Yes,I'd imagine they're still under guarantee.

nothingcomestonothing · 09/10/2023 16:50

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:54

Surrogacy is a quite legitimate option for many women who are not able to carry their own eggs. Surrogacy is not baby trafficking at all. I have never understood the extreme response to it on mumsnet.

Could you explain how it's not baby trafficking?

TheKeatingFive · 09/10/2023 16:55

Surrogacy is a quite legitimate option for many women who are not able to carry their own eggs.

Not much thought here for the woman who's body is being used as an incubator for rent, now is there?

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 18:34

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 15:54

Surrogacy is a quite legitimate option for many women who are not able to carry their own eggs. Surrogacy is not baby trafficking at all. I have never understood the extreme response to it on mumsnet.

Are you saying that surrogacy is acceptable for women who can’t carry children? What about women who just don’t want to? What about men?

The circumstances of the person buying the baby are irrelevant to the question of whether surrogacy is ok. What matters are the rights of the mother (ie the woman carrying the child) and the baby. And by definition surrogacy arrangements do not prioritise or value these rights.

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:05

nothingcomestonothing · 09/10/2023 16:50

Could you explain how it's not baby trafficking?

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For some people this can be their only option of being a parent. There are a wide range of scenarios available so lets take one. A couple for medical reasons cannot carry to full term. They are desparate for a child of their own. A close friend agrees to carry their baby for them. The baby is born and cared for and nurtured by the couple. Perhaps you might explain how this would be baby trafficking?

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:08

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 18:34

Are you saying that surrogacy is acceptable for women who can’t carry children? What about women who just don’t want to? What about men?

The circumstances of the person buying the baby are irrelevant to the question of whether surrogacy is ok. What matters are the rights of the mother (ie the woman carrying the child) and the baby. And by definition surrogacy arrangements do not prioritise or value these rights.

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It is I agree possible that some surrogacy arrangements may be exploitative. As can some marriages as potentially could donations of sperm. This does not as far as I can see mean that in principle surrogacy is wrong.

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:09

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 18:34

Are you saying that surrogacy is acceptable for women who can’t carry children? What about women who just don’t want to? What about men?

The circumstances of the person buying the baby are irrelevant to the question of whether surrogacy is ok. What matters are the rights of the mother (ie the woman carrying the child) and the baby. And by definition surrogacy arrangements do not prioritise or value these rights.

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I don not agree that surrogacy is buying a baby. It is a legitimate choice for any couple- gay or straight who have no other option.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/10/2023 20:10

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:05

For some people this can be their only option of being a parent. There are a wide range of scenarios available so lets take one. A couple for medical reasons cannot carry to full term. They are desparate for a child of their own. A close friend agrees to carry their baby for them. The baby is born and cared for and nurtured by the couple. Perhaps you might explain how this would be baby trafficking?

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That's how surrogacy started isn't it - with friend / family links?
Now we get wealthy people renting the bodies of poorer women (often in other countries to avoid the legal protections for children that exist in this country) and then purchasing the baby.

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 20:11

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:05

For some people this can be their only option of being a parent. There are a wide range of scenarios available so lets take one. A couple for medical reasons cannot carry to full term. They are desparate for a child of their own. A close friend agrees to carry their baby for them. The baby is born and cared for and nurtured by the couple. Perhaps you might explain how this would be baby trafficking?

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No one is entitled to a baby or to take advantage of a woman just because they want one, no matter how desperately.

Outcomes for pregnant women can range from pain and discomfort to serious health issues/permanent disability to death.

The altruistic surrogacy arrangements you describe account for a tiny fraction of surrogacies, the vast majority of which are financially driven and essentially involve exploiting poor women. And even the altruistic examples are deeply problematic.

And that’s before you even begin to think of the impact on the baby.

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 20:13

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:09

I don not agree that surrogacy is buying a baby. It is a legitimate choice for any couple- gay or straight who have no other option.

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What do you mean you don’t agree it is buying a baby?

Adam Kay and his husband literally paid someone for their babies. I’d love to know how the fact they are gay or really wanted kids somehow means this financial arrangement didn’t happen.

ArabeIIaScott · 09/10/2023 20:15

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:09

I don not agree that surrogacy is buying a baby. It is a legitimate choice for any couple- gay or straight who have no other option.

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And it is likely to have life long adverse impacts on the baby.

As well as the impacts on the mother.

TheKeatingFive · 09/10/2023 21:06

It is a legitimate choice for any couple- gay or straight who have no other option.

No one has a right to a child. Have a think about the impact on the other people involved. The birth mother and the child themselves.

oksothisisusnow · 09/10/2023 21:08

DinaofCloud9 · 18/06/2023 17:50

He doesn't seem a decent sort at all. He's a vile misogynist.

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I have no idea what the poster has read about him, absolutely not what I'd consider a decent sort. At all.

nothingcomestonothing · 09/10/2023 22:06

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:05

For some people this can be their only option of being a parent. There are a wide range of scenarios available so lets take one. A couple for medical reasons cannot carry to full term. They are desparate for a child of their own. A close friend agrees to carry their baby for them. The baby is born and cared for and nurtured by the couple. Perhaps you might explain how this would be baby trafficking?

Show quote history

How does the idea that 'this can be their only option of being a parent' make it not baby trafficking? Would you be okay with that as a reason if they'd bought a toddler? Or an eight year old? Would you be fine with someone stealing a new born from a maternity unit, if that was 'their only option of being a parent'?

Renting a woman's body and removing a baby from its birth mother is about the purchasing adults wants. It's wrong no matter how sad the purchasers will be if they can't have what they want, how wealthy they are, how much they want a baby, how loving they will be or anything else. Buying and selling humans is wrong.

MyNumber1Rule · 09/10/2023 22:39

I totally disagree that it is baby trafficking, its a valid option IMO for childless couples, I also agree he doesn't really seem a decent sort so perhaps they does skew the answers.

There are lots of gay couples who use surrogates and they seem like amazing parents, look at Neil Patrick Harris and David Burtka for example, they used a surrogate and implanted an embryo each, they have 10 yo twins now. I can't see an arguement against them doing this.

MyNumber1Rule · 09/10/2023 22:41

Cyclebabble · 09/10/2023 20:08

It is I agree possible that some surrogacy arrangements may be exploitative. As can some marriages as potentially could donations of sperm. This does not as far as I can see mean that in principle surrogacy is wrong.

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100% this. I would hope that in the majority of cases it is highly regulated but obviously there will be cases where it is not. I agree that this shouldn't mean it can never be acceptable.

Embarra55ed · 09/10/2023 23:15

MyNumber1Rule · 09/10/2023 22:39

I totally disagree that it is baby trafficking, its a valid option IMO for childless couples, I also agree he doesn't really seem a decent sort so perhaps they does skew the answers.

There are lots of gay couples who use surrogates and they seem like amazing parents, look at Neil Patrick Harris and David Burtka for example, they used a surrogate and implanted an embryo each, they have 10 yo twins now. I can't see an arguement against them doing this.

The arguments against them doing this are all over this thread.