Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Our children/grandchildren/great grandchildren will look back in horror at the utter cruelty and barbarism of our times when it comes to feeding on animals, in the same way we look back at medieval times.

This really made me laugh. Well played!

Yes exactly. Hunter gatherers did eat plants but if they had meat available that was always the preferred option. Plants would have been eaten because it's better than nothing but animals were always the first choice.

How the hell do you know animals were first choice? 😂😂 Were you there? Nope! So please stop projecting your own values as fact.

Everyone can eat what they want, depending on what suits their bodies, but I personally think the nation has been enfeebled by ultraprocessed food.

Because there's a much higher risk in hunting than in gathering, so if plants were the preferred option, we would have just eaten those and not taken that elevated risk.

'Nope!' doesn't really take the evidence into consideration.

Of course meat was. Its far more calorie and nutrient dense. If you don't know when you will next eat, of course you eat the most nutritious, calorific thing

My friend has a lizard. Put a piece of kale in front of it and an insect. Guess which the lizard ate first?

I can’t speak for you but my reasoning goes beyond that of a lizard.

Humans did not have the option or ability to access limitless food along the lines of what we have today, there is simply no excuse for using prehistoric reasoning to justify your support of cruelty now.
Now you can eat your own body weight in food 247 if you so choose without any harm coming to animals, insects or birds.

Unless you are posting from a third world country you just sound ridiculous.

Unless you are posting from a third world country you just sound ridiculous

Or unless you are using nutrition as an argument.

Third world? Maybe your reasoning skills don't go as far as you would like to think.

Societies in the third world have a genuine reason to eat whatever is available, I am afraid you don’t have the same free pass.

I can’t believe people still wheel out the old trope of meat being more nutritious even now with all of the education and accessible research we have now in 2023! Aren’t you embarrassed to post such misinformation? Or do you still actually believe eating meat is better for you?? The mind boggles at the ignorance.

To all those saying I shouldn't 'project my viewpoint' on my children, is your choice to eat meant not also your viewpoint that you are 'projecting' on your children?! Maybe you should also be offering them insects and dogmeat in case they may like it.

The very point of raising children is to instil morals, ethics and values - it’s up to them as they get older to challenge and decide for themselves. My kids love being vegetarian and always have done. We have been to thousands of parties and dinners, it’s never ever a problem.

I can’t believe people still wheel out the old trope of meat being more nutritious even now with all of the education and accessible research we have now in 2023! Aren’t you embarrassed to post such misinformation? Or do you still actually believe eating meat is better for you? The mind boggles at the ignorance

I can't believe people still wheel out the old phrase "third world" even now with all the education we now have in 2023. Aren't you embarrassed to use such outdated phrases?

Why don't you just give them veggie food at home and let them eat what they want outside? That seems a better compromise.

Your comedy cooking probably cant stretch to a nutritionally balanced vegetarian dinner.

Meat is more nutritious, yes, and it's not embarrassing to say so, even if you think that it is. You are not the judge, nor do you know everything. Why are you wanting to make people seem stupid? 'The mind boggles at the ignorance' is such a superior attitude to take. I'd find it embarrassing to say something like that, to be honest.

Meat has a more complete selection of essential nutrients for the human body, in more accessible forms, than vegetables. Obviously you haven't read the research yourself. Find the research that shows that a vegetarian/vegan diet contains all the nutrients we need, in the best forms for us to consume. That'll get you further in getting your point across than '??' and the 'Why are people such idiots?' attitude.

I think your post says it all actually. Enough said.

Not once have you acknowledged the pain, suffering and torture of animals, not once.

The world and its wildlife does NOT exist purely for your benefit. The irony of you calling others superior. Seriously take a good, hard long look at yourself.

Ancient Hindu and Jain cultures were athiest who believed in balancing the ecosystem & new no food could be produced without eating or killing animals of some sort. Ground flour contains a lot of insect eggs (which is why it gets beevils). Roots, nuts and legumes have insects inside them that you either must kill or consume to get the goodness. It’s why these cultures didn’t consider roots, figs, dates, dairy and other sticky foods vegetarian.

Also, most vegans in the UK live on a lot of processed junk - once research is done on Quorn etc I have no doubt it will be placed even higher than red meat as carcinogens. B

think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies)

if you eat dairy products then the above statement is meaningless to you. If you think it’s cruel to kill cows because they know what is going on, but think it’s ok to separate calves from their mothers and force cows to reproduce over and over again just for milk production, then you’re a hypocrite to not eat read meat but consume dairy.

You can choose veganism or vegetarianism for ethical reasons...I mean factory farming is abhorrent. However, human beings are meat eaters. Meat is part of our natural diet. Bizarre lab grown proteins mascarading as meat are not. You can be vegetarian or vegan whilst also admitting meat is nutritionally superior than most plant foods. You don't have to pretend otherwise.

Why are you desperately trying to compare the odd insect on a lettuce leaf to the mass in
slaughter of animals on an industrial scale?

Here's some research on veggie diets being fine, and often healthier. Western scientists are rethinking their views on veg diets being nutritionally lacking. Becoming a vegetarian - Harvard Health.

I think Michael Pollan has a lot more, but right now I cba to go through it. He annoys me a bit with his harping on what my granny has been doing all her life. "Eat real food, mostly plants."

I don;t know why people are going on about lab grown proteins being worse than meat. Most of the world does not eat them. They eat vegetables!

Summary of the above research "In recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses. According to the American Dietetic Association, "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

The key is appropriately planned, so not eating Fridge Raiders and Pringles.

I view this one and the same way as I do religion. It is fine for a parent to say “this is my belief” and even “this is what i practise at home” but it is wrong to suggest that the belief of the parent is the only way and to not let them explore and experiment with other areas.

i think in many areas of life it can become all to easy to try to force our children down the same path as us rather than giving them to space and skills to draw their own conclusions (even if that differs from ours)