Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Meant to add: I'd eat a steak any day, on moral grounds, in preference to any bird.

We're the same, basically no mammals

Keep up!

(The first post.)

For context -I’ve been veggie for 60 years.
i think a lot of the advice about red meat is wrong. Small amounts of (preferably organic) red meat would be better than chicken. Chickens live in horrendous conditions and are pumped full of antibiotics, hormones etc. In Buddhist Tibet, the monks are basically vegetarian, but because of the climate, meat is sometimes necessary. So they eat beef or yak, reasoning that only one animal needs to be killed to feed a lot of people. So the killing is kept to a minimum. Chickens and fish do not fall into this category because of their size.
Processed meats like ham and bacon should be avoided - they’re the killers because of the phosphates etc. that are used.
just my opinion!

Exactly

Sorry I find your reasoning ridiculous, I have no issues with people who bring their children up vegetarian but stipulating good and bad meats is silly. They are all living beings. I think a "we eat this at home" but relaxed out makes more sense

So I'm a bit of a weird vegetarian, in that I myself am vegetarian for ethical reasons (have been my whole life), but I want my children to be vegetarian for health reasons. Their health is of the utmost importance to me, and I don't believe meat (especially red meat) is the healthiest option.

My stance is this - there will be no meat or fish in my house. If, when they're old enough to know what meat is, they want to eat meat out the house then I'm not going to stop them. I want them to understand what they're eating when they make the choice, because I remember the day I learnt what meat was and that I was eating animal flesh, and I found it really distressing and felt betrayed by my parents. So I want them to make the choice for themselves.

My boundary is simply not in my house (and tbh I wouldn't let anyone bring meat into my home, whoever they are, because I think it's disgusting!). I figure this way, the vast majority of their diet growing up will be meat free which is good enough for me from a health pov, and hopefully it will give them the taste for plant based food as they grow older and cook for themselves!

Two parents, two different points of view. I would think the occasional compromise would be a fair way of dealing with this.

@MasterBeth
I'm fully up to speed, thanks.
I just object when people draw a distinction between humans and other animals in goady comments because we are all animals.
I imagine most people do it so that they can feel ok about eating other animals as well as feeling they have a right to take over the world and treat every other living species on this planet like shit.

How do you think a chicken would behave if you tried to kill it, @Flymeaway4 ? Do you think it would be fine with it?

If you're a vegetarian then it's fine to raid your children as vegetarians-why don't you? Your reasons for choosing what they eat and what they don't are completely spurious.

I think if you tell them what's involved, most kids will want to be vegetarian or pescetarian anyway.

While they are young, you are the one who makes the decisions about what they eat and if you're not ok with them eating pigs, cows, horses, goats, dogs and sheep, then that's reasonable and normal.

Preserved pig meats like ham, salami, bacon and sausage are extremely unhealthy as well. If the chemicals used in preserving meat had to be submitted for approval nowadays, they wouldn't be allowed. It's only tradition and the risk of public uproar if they were banned, that keeps them in use.

I personally would add birds to the 'no' list. Chickens experience lives of pain and misery, with many being eviscerated while still alive.

Fish don't have the same pain response as mammals and birds, but they do feel something. Personally I eat fish with gills that die out of water, but never crustaceans that are boiled alive.

If the chemicals used in preserving meat had to be submitted for approval nowadays, they wouldn't be allowed

What are you basing this on, @Redebs ? I don't disagree, I just don't know how anybody could claim to know this.

I don't think you are being unreasonable...red meat is worse for you than chicken/fish.
I used to be vegan and it was very bad for me personally bit then I got orthorexia.
Meat farming is cruel but as humans, we are apex predators and hunting/ killing animals is not "nice." Although I agree that factory farming is the pits.

But*

So it's alright to eat a chicken but not a cow lamb or pig 🤷‍♀️
Your argument isn't valid

I'm a vegetarian, I've always tried to provide my children with a fairly balanced diet with meat/fish etc and let them decide for themselves what they do and don't like. My son is not a big meat eater, he more often than not eats the same vegetarian meals that I'm having. My daughter absolutely loves meat and would rather eat it than most other things! My partner eats meat but red meat sets his IBS off so meals containing red meat are kept to a minimum, maybe the occasional lasagne or pork chops.

In our family we handled it this way: I am veg and partner is not. Partner agreed with me we would not have meat in our home. At home, therefore, child was veg, because I was the main cook. If child was at friend's house or in a restaurant, child could do whatever child wanted. The home remained a meat free zone so I didn't have to deal with yucky stuff. It worked pretty well. Until lockdown when it all fell apart and at this point everyone eats different meals and I'm okay with it. Your system I don't think is a great plan. The distinction between red meat critters and other critters is arbitrary, AND will also require constant explanations in our culture. (I mean a lot of food stuff is arbitrary... Refusing to eat puppies or insects is also arguably arbitrary but no one notices because it is normal). Also, you're try to limit what happens outside your own dining table and your kitchen, and that's just hard work and too controlling. Whereas my approach was only somewhat controlling...enough for child to see that veg eating can be a tasty and ethical option, but not enough to give him any kind of complex.

If they were on a vegetarian diet then I could understand but if you don't allow them to eat certain animals but will allow them to eat others then I think YABU. Either it's cruel/gross to eat the flesh of a dead animal or it's not.
A chicken can be as intelligent and potentially sweet as a cow, sheep or pig. (Though cows are regularly dumb as a box of rocks even if they can be sweet and dairy ones are often terrible mothers!)

And I eat meat. I love it. I grew up farming and appreciate good meat from well raised livestock.

I find some of the tribal posts on here say mh because cave men are meat we all have to! As if no conscious thought or progress has been made since then!!

Fortunately some of us have developed since then, and do not have to fight and eat anything to survive.
We can choose what we consume as mindfully as possible now, causing the minimum amount of suffering and agony to animals.

My children eat around 13 different types of vegetables, legumes and fruit a day plus nuts and seeds and calcium. I don’t think they would be anywhere near as healthy as they are if all I had to think about was wheeling out processed sausages!

We all can decide what is right for us and our families, I don’t judge those that support the barbaric treatment and slaughter of voiceless animals, and eat them. Not everyone cares about animals - and I accept and respect their personal decisions, however feeding your kids dead flesh and tissue requires you to be honest about what they are actually eating. I will never forget the day I found out. It was horrific and shocking far worse than the Father Christmas moment.Be honest at least from the beginning. Let your children decide.
Accept you are responsible for countless deaths and suffering and take responsibility.

Beef, mutton, lamb, pork beer and tea gave us our strong bodies. It gave us energy and that that led to us being Great Britain.
Now we have become enfeebled by vegetarianism.
Weaker less resolute, less resilient. Decade by decade since the rationing of WW2 years.

@GCalltheway

Fortunately some of us have developed since then

Not much in terms of evolutionary biology, and especially not since we were hunter gatherers very very recently, in evolutionary terms.

Some really entertaining posts on MN these days.😂

😂😂

You’re unreasonable on two counts.

1. you are imposing your views

2. you’re crazy to think some animals are more worthy of being eaten than others. All or nothing in my opinion.